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Stephen Churay
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 March 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 8369
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| Posted: 03 January 2013 at 2:50pm | IP Logged | 1
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"Ah, if only Howard and I HAD done our "Shaper of Worlds" story. It
would have been a quick, clean, surgical excision, with no moral
ambiguities."
If only...
======
I think it would have been a cool idea. After the response for
CHAPTER ONE, the masses would've probably turned it into grist for
the "Hate Byrne" mill no matter how good it would have been.
Probably best that someone else took that bullet.
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Andrew Bitner
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 June 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 7526
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| Posted: 03 January 2013 at 2:53pm | IP Logged | 2
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it's hard to me to understand harras's objection. in a world where these cosmic entities exist, and often interact with human beings, what is so inconceivable about the shaper deciding spider-man's "story" (that is, his life) is broken and in need of repair? isn't that what he does? spider-man might be a street level character but he's been involved in cosmic level events. and, as marvel's "everyman" hero, it's not a huge leap in logic (to me) that he might interact with someone like the shaper. now, if he were having coffee with eternity regularly (and THAT might be a fun parody!), i'd see it.
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Phil Kreisel
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 03 February 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 1911
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| Posted: 03 January 2013 at 3:13pm | IP Logged | 3
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As I mentioned on the new comics thread, I absolutely hated Issue #700, which was the exact opposite way I felt about issue #698. The premise of mind transference is not a new concept. Dr. Doom did it on numerous occasions (with the most memorable for me being Fantastic Four volume 1 #10); Star Trek (TOS) did it to Capt. Kirk when Janice Lester took over his body. However, these were stories that came to a satisfying conclusion in the same issue/show and were not dragged out for months (or years). I'd have been okay with this as a short-term story, but as a "permanent" change? Ugh! I'll give it a couple of issues, but unless the writing and art is top notch, I'll be dropping the Superior Spider-Man title pretty darn quickly. Death threats??? Now that's just crazy. Marvel will only reverse things when sales plummet.
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Rick Whiting
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 April 2004
Posts: 2214
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| Posted: 03 January 2013 at 3:25pm | IP Logged | 4
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It also reminds us of something I have noted before, that what used to be the "fringe" has become the center, and now the fringe of the fringe has a soapbox from which to make itself heard.
____________________________________
What's even worse, is that the Big 2 continue to aim the over whelming majority of their superhero comics at this fringe readership.
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Andrew W. Farago
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 July 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 4079
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| Posted: 03 January 2013 at 6:17pm | IP Logged | 5
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Think about it: there will be people for whom a Doc Ock/ Peter Parker hybrid is their Spider-Man. These people will be disappointed when Peter comes back. It may not be many, but the fact that they'll be any is kind of sad.
It'll be their Spider-Man for the course of a few trade paperbacks/story arcs, then it will snap back to normal. Like Rhodey filling in for Tony Stark, like Azrael filling in for Batman, four guys filling in for Superman, Beta Ray Bill replacing Thor for the duration of a cover and about 30 pages, Dark Wolverine booting Logan from his own comic, Super-Patriot taking over for Captain America (which had thematic similarities to the prior decade's Nomad storyline, and to the next decade's Fighting Chance storyline, and the next decade's death of Captain America storyline)... The Spider-Man for most people right now is the current animated one for kids my nephew's age, and either Andrew Garfield or Tobey Maguire for teens and up, depending on which movies they preferred.
It's a story arc that will go on for a little while, but it's not like this is the first time that Amazing Spider-Man ended and started over without Peter Parker wearing the webs, is it?
One of the first Spider-Man comics I ever bought featured Kraven the Hunter dancing on Spider-Man's grave on the front cover, and at the time, I had no idea that wouldn't be a permanent thing, but the art was great and the story was weird and creepy and I knew that I had to stick around to see what was going to happen next.
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Joe Zhang
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 12857
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| Posted: 03 January 2013 at 7:45pm | IP Logged | 6
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"I, somewhat sadly, admit I was one of the new readers. I had taken a 10 year break from comics and was slowing expanding my books when it hit. "
Don't be sad about it; it's a very good thing that it got you reading Spider-Man again. What I meant by "brand new reader" is for example an 11-year old who's never followed Spider-Man before.
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Andrew W. Farago
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 July 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 4079
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| Posted: 03 January 2013 at 11:54pm | IP Logged | 7
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Slott's an accessible writer. I'm sure that if a kid or his parents pick up the new Superior Spider-Man in single-issue format or trades, they'll be able to pick up on what's happening and get a satisfying read out of it. I don't see this series as more potentially off-putting than any other random jumping-on point in modern comic books.
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Joe Zhang
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 12857
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| Posted: 04 January 2013 at 5:09am | IP Logged | 8
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OK, I'll take your trustworthy word for it.
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Shawn Kane
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 November 2010
Location: United States
Posts: 3239
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| Posted: 04 January 2013 at 7:41am | IP Logged | 9
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A few years later, and a different editorial administration, and Peter Parker literally making a deal with the devil becomes just fine. That editorial administration also allowed Scott Summers to cheat on Jean Grey with Emma Frost and then allowed Jean to be killed off so that Scott could enjoy the relationship with the bad girl.
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Stephen Robinson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5835
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| Posted: 04 January 2013 at 11:05am | IP Logged | 10
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On the original DARK SHADOWS series, the villain Count Petofi switched minds with Quentin Collins. This was the "status quo" for about a month's worth of daily episodes. I think my issue with the events of ASM 700 is the *intentional* media furor. Even Slott predicting the fringe reaction to the storyline before it even happened (stating that he was going to have to hide when it came out).
Comics are about the "illusion of change." When creators "court" the media and pretend the "illusion" is permanent (e.g. "Bruce Wayne Is Dead") it's almost like running an article with the headline "Statue of Liberty Disappears" after a David Copperfield performance.
Comic books are a lot like soap operas in this regard, but I don't think the media has caught on to that. If a long-running character on a soap "dies," that wouldn't get much of a press reaction because we know the character will probably return in a year. That's how it works.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133317
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| Posted: 04 January 2013 at 11:12am | IP Logged | 11
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When DC "killed" Superman, they made a big deal out of it being "real" and "permanent". Roger Stern quoted the Munchkins to say Superman was "really most sincerely dead."And then he came back. I'll admit, a little part of my brain was looking for a class action suit against DC/Warners for fraud.
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Greg Woronchak
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 September 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 1631
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| Posted: 04 January 2013 at 11:41am | IP Logged | 12
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Slott predicting the fringe reaction to the storyline before it even
happened (stating that he was going to have to hide when it came out).
Dan has poked people a bit with his promotion for the storyline thru various posts (including here). I guess it's part of the job creating comics nowadays to be proactive in selling any book, but I'd suggest that includes the flip side of backlash.
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