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Stephen Robinson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5835
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| Posted: 02 January 2013 at 9:30pm | IP Logged | 1
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SER said" THE DEATH OF SUPERMAN is a classic, a wonderfully moving story I enjoy revisiting. It never made the papers."BRAD:---It never made the papers or you just weren't reading newspapers back then? Because it was in a LOT of papers, and on the news, and it was a pretty Big Deal back in 1992. I was 12, and adults were asking me about it because they knew I collected comics. Though, when I told them I collected Marvel not DC I just got confused looks...
SER: Sorry, I worded things poorly in my previous post. I am referring to this:
 I was 18 when SUPERMAN 75 was released (I still can't call it "The Death of Superman" because, for me, that refers to one specific story) and do recall the media hoopla connected to it (somewhat by accident -- a slow news day, as I recall, which now has me wondering if the direction of comics over the past two decades might have changed if SUPERMAN 75 was released on the same day as a political scandal or something like that).
Edited by Stephen Robinson on 02 January 2013 at 9:32pm
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Joe Hollon
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Joined: 08 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 13697
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| Posted: 02 January 2013 at 9:35pm | IP Logged | 2
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THE DEATH OF SUPERMAN is a classic, a wonderfully moving story I enjoy revisiting. It never made the papers.
*********
It was definitely a big, mainstream media story at the time. I still hear non-comic-readers from time to time say something like, "Superman? I thought he died..."
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Joe Hollon
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Joined: 08 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 13697
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| Posted: 02 January 2013 at 9:39pm | IP Logged | 3
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SUPERMAN 149 is one of the greatest comics ever produced. Back when they could just tell a good story without making a fake event out of everything. If anything they even downplay it on the cover by telling you it's an "imaginary" tale! Totally the opposite of today's marketing!
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Tim O Neill
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Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 10937
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| Posted: 03 January 2013 at 12:46am | IP Logged | 4
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It took me forever to get a hold of issue #698 - I had #700 before I could finally get the beginning of the story arc. So I read the story in one shot and I thought it was a really cool concept. It's a great read and real page turner. It was worth waiting to read it all in one shot.
I had given up on Spider-Man a while back when a bunch of issues started stacking up that I hadn't read. When I finally got around to reading through the stack, I realized how much I like Dan Slott's run on the book. He has hit a fantastic vibe in depicting Peter, and it has been a fantastic ride. Glad I came back!
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Andrew W. Farago
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Joined: 19 July 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 4079
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| Posted: 03 January 2013 at 1:00am | IP Logged | 5
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I think there's something really, really with wrong looking at it that way. Comics is a serial, episodic experience, especially with the superhero comic books we are talking about. Done right, there's a real immediacy, making us wonder what's going to happen next. Done wrong, it's a waste of a month (or in Marvel's case, several years). For that reason, the latest adventures of Superman or Spider-Man matter a great deal to us, even if we're not current readers.
Huh? Slott's story might last a couple of story arcs, maybe a full year. What's wrong with either riding it out and enjoying it or ignoring it if you're not into the concept? This doesn't feel any more fundamentally wrong or different than launching the X-Men into space for six months, having the Avengers disband, or replacing a member of the Fantastic Four for a little while.
Superman's one of my favorite characters, but every once in a while he gets a creative team that doesn't click for me, or he'll get mired down in a prolonged storyline that I don't like, and when that happens, I bail out for a while. Riding it out with characters you don't like and storylines you don't like and creative teams you don't like takes money from your wallet and tells the publisher that you enjoy what they're doing.
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Stephen Churay
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Joined: 25 March 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 8369
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| Posted: 03 January 2013 at 4:11am | IP Logged | 6
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Huh? Slott's story might last a couple of story arcs, maybe a full year.
What's wrong with either riding it out and enjoying it or ignoring it if
you're not into the concept? This doesn't feel any more fundamentally
wrong or different than launching the X-Men into space for six months,
having the Avengers disband, or replacing a member of the Fantastic
Four for a little while.
=====
Honestly, I don't ha e a problem with this story per se. It hasn't played
out, so I really can't say, but it's concept isn't anymore ridiculous than
anything I read as a teenager. I do think this idea can bring
unforeseen problems that if not treated well could be disastrous. Well,
the story is leaning towards that. At best, the MJ problem gets icky. At
worst, actually criminal.
Again for me, the biggest problem is the need to create a whole new
title, and declare "This Is The New Status Quo!" when WE KNOW it's
not. It's at best gonna last for a year or two. Maybe longer if Marvel
sees that everybody seems to LOVE the new character. My guess is
Peter will be back by the time the next film arrives. I'm just really
getting annoyed with transparent event style promotion for something
like this. It's one thing if you're aiming this to 13 yr olds who are new
to comics and could get excited about it, but Marvel hasn't looked to
that crowd in ten years. If you're going to market to the 25 to 40 year
old reader, stop treating these promotional campaign like we're kids.
Or, better yet, starting writing comics for the 8-18 yr old crowd.
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Joe Zhang
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 12857
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| Posted: 03 January 2013 at 4:59am | IP Logged | 7
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"Huh? Slott's story might last a couple of story arcs, maybe a full year. What's wrong with either riding it out and enjoying it or ignoring it if you're not into the concept? This doesn't feel any more fundamentally wrong or different than launching the X-Men into space for six months, having the Avengers disband, or replacing a member of the Fantastic Four for a little while. "
===========================
First of all, there is such a thing as a wrong concept for fiction. Guys like me or you probably aren't qualified to make a definitive judgement on what's wrong for Spider-Man or the Avengers, but then again the pros at Marvel don't quite seem capable of making such distinctions either.
Secondly, let's put that attitude in a larger perspective. Fandoms and public awareness of superheroes were built on getting more and more kids (and adults) reading, month after month, year after year, generation after generation. That long trek is what set the stage for Marvel's massive success in movies. But oddly, Marvel's present-day strategy to address dwindling readership for Spider-Man and all their other books is to come up with convoluted story ideas that alienate their remaining customers and add nothing in terms of new readers. Did Brand New Day bring any truly brand new readers into the Spider-Man fold? What has Civil War, House of M or any of that expensive, empty crossover stories acheived, creatively and financially?
I mean, if the answer to all those questions is, "shut up and put up, I'm just a fanboy", well then, Marvel will have to find a way to stop me from paying attention to what their doing. If their ideas get any sillier, I just might have to run for the hills whenever I hear the name "Marvel".
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Michael Roberts
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Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 14857
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| Posted: 03 January 2013 at 6:16am | IP Logged | 8
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Did Brand New Day bring any truly brand new readers into the Spider-Man fold?
----
Probably not. But it eased Spider-Man back onto the rails after he had been thrown wildly off course after the JMS years. Or did people prefer the middle-aged, married, public school teacher/Tony Stark's toadie with a public identity whose superpowers may have been influenced by a spider-totem with wrist stingers and organic webbing and insect control powers and fangs that he used to bite one of his villains dead and whose college girlfriend was knocked up by his best friend's dad who was also one of his arch-villains and who went time-traveling with his elderly aunt and his wife in old Iron Man suits?
Brand New Day was a horribly awkward kludge, but anything that got away from the crap that had been piled onto Spider-Man was a welcome sight for me.
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Glen Keith
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Joined: 04 July 2010
Location: United States
Posts: 851
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| Posted: 03 January 2013 at 6:30am | IP Logged | 9
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Stories like these are nothing new, and wouldn't be a problem if they only lasted an issue or three. The problem is that publishers make these stories an event, with new first issues and logos, extensive promotions, and then drag these stories out for a year (or more!). This makes them last long enough that some people become fans of what they thought was the new status quo.
Think about it: there will be people for whom a Doc Ock/ Peter Parker hybrid is their Spider-Man. These people will be disappointed when Peter comes back. It may not be many, but the fact that they'll be any is kind of sad.
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Kip Lewis
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Joined: 01 March 2011
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| Posted: 03 January 2013 at 6:43am | IP Logged | 10
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Again for me, the biggest problem is the need to create a whole new
title, and declare "This Is The New Status Quo!" when WE KNOW it's
not. It's at best gonna last for a year or two. Maybe longer if Marvel
sees that everybody seems to LOVE the new character. My guess is
Peter will be back by the time the next film arrives. I'm just really
getting annoyed with transparent event style promotion for something
like this. It's one thing if you're aiming this to 13 yr olds who are new
to comics and could get excited about it, but Marvel hasn't looked to
that crowd in ten years. If you're going to market to the 25 to 40 year
old reader, stop treating these promotional campaign like we're kids.
Or, better yet, starting writing comics for the 8-18 yr old crowd.
---------------------
What is Spider-man's rating; Teen? Teen Plus????? If it is teen, then it
is being written for the 8/10 to 18 year old; even if it isn't being
marketed to them.
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Aaron Smith
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 06 September 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 10461
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| Posted: 03 January 2013 at 7:59am | IP Logged | 11
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Think about it: there will be people for whom a Doc Ock/ Peter Parker hybrid is their Spider-Man. These people will be disappointed when Peter comes back. It may not be many, but the fact that they'll be any is kind of sad.
***
Something like this happened with my wife. When I was still reading new comics regularly, she would occasionally look through what I was reading. The new-at-the-time Flash series had just started, featuring Bart Allen as the title character. She liked it, read every issue for the 10 or so months it ran. Then Bart Allen was suddenly killed off, Wally West returned and the book's numbering went back to the 200s. She tried to keep following the book only to see it restarted yet again with the return of Barry Allen not long after that! It was a very frustrating experience for someone who had found a superhero comic they enjoyed.
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Greg Woronchak
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Joined: 04 September 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 1631
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| Posted: 03 January 2013 at 9:24am | IP Logged | 12
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it's concept isn't anymore ridiculous than
anything I read as a teenager.
When I first heard about it, I thought that it sounded like an unused Bob Haney plot <g>.
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Topic Closed)
