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Topic: Dan Slott gets death threats for ASM#700 (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Brett Wilson
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Posted: 31 December 2012 at 5:05am | IP Logged | 1  

What Trevor said.  This is nothing more than a gimmick that will be undone soon and through some really stupid plot twist (remember when spider man revealed his secret identity?) 
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Joe Zhang
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Posted: 31 December 2012 at 6:02am | IP Logged | 2  

"Seems like it's harder and harder to just tell good stories and expect the audience to come back every month for it.  "

If it's anyone's fault, it's the publishers themselves. It is they who telegraph their stories and stunts months in advance, and are always available for the CNN or EW interview. 
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John Byrne
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Posted: 31 December 2012 at 6:12am | IP Logged | 3  

"Seems like it's harder and harder to just tell good stories and expect the audience to come back every month for it. "

If it's anyone's fault, it's the publishers themselves. It is they who telegraph their stories and stunts months in advance, and are always available for the CNN or EW interview.

••

As I have mentioned before, one of my greatest frustrations is having the covers of the fourth issue of a series out there for promotion before the first issue has even hit the stands. I find this tremendously restricting, in terms of what I can put on the covers. What might once have been a dramatic, enticing image, when the promotions did not appear until the house ads the month the issue shipped, become huge SPOILERS.

One example, the JURASSIC PARK series I did a while back for IDW. The first issue ended with a "reveal" of the precise nature/species of dinosaur that was causing all the fuss. Once upon a time, this would have meant said critters could have been all over the covers of issues 2 thru 4 -- but if I had done that, the promotions for the fourth issue would have spoiled the reveal before the first issue was available for reading. (One "reviewer" managed to spoil the reveal anyway, apparently being too dumb to understand that telling the story is not a "review".)

The reason for these months-in-advance promotions are, of course, so that the Shops can judge which books are going to be "hot" and order accordingly -- the manufacturers thus pandering to the retailers, something which happens in virtually no other form of commerce.

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Trevor Phillip
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Posted: 31 December 2012 at 7:44am | IP Logged | 4  

Marvel and DC regularly "censor" covers in Previews these days to counter exactly what you're describing, JB.  When a cover not out for 4 months will spoil a current story line.  I'm sure this requires communication between editors and the marketing guys just as sure as I'm sure spoilers have been missed by the censor crew.


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Terry Thielen
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Posted: 31 December 2012 at 8:06am | IP Logged | 5  

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2012/12/29/talking-with-steve-wa cker-about-you-know-what/

I found this twitter conversation with Spider-man editor about the rape scene in #700.
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Kip Lewis
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Posted: 31 December 2012 at 9:30am | IP Logged | 6  

A relatively new retcon* to the Doctor Octopus back story is that he had Latent Telepathic Powers™ and accidentally used them to induce an aneurysm in his father. Do explanations and rationalizations like this serve to help creators tell 'better' stories? I mean, isn't brain damage and the inability to discern right from wrong enough of an explanation?

It's humorous that the cause of Doctor Octopus' most recent incarnation (before the mindswap) was due to a writer thinking about "What would be the result of someone as strong as Spider-man beating on someone 'normal' like Doctor Octopus?". To me, that's a kid's question -- or at least the kind of things that kids would dwell upon and come up with their own internally consistent explanations. The trouble begins when an adult or an adult-fan decides to answer the question that no one really wanted or needed an answer to, and in far too much adult-minded detail.


--------------

Wait; that explaination for his powers was used on Ultimate Doctor Octopus. When did the mainstream one get that explaination, too?
 INVISO TEXT (Click or highlight to reveal):
(I think the Ultimite Universe added that because SHIELD destroyed the orginal arms and this gave him the ability to create new arms at any time from metal.)


(Edited for clarity.)

Edited by Kip Lewis on 31 December 2012 at 1:21pm
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Stephen Churay
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Posted: 31 December 2012 at 10:12am | IP Logged | 7  

I found this twitter conversation with Spider-man editor about the rape
scene in #700.
=====
Wow, creative team in denial. I hadn't mentioned the rape because
Slott is a pretty responsible writer. To accept it for what it is, and write
about it is one thing. To claim that it's not what's happening is just
plain irresponsible.

Also, I think Wacker has lost a bit of perspective. Either that or he's
just working really hard to C.Y.A. and not throw Slott under the bus.
There's a certain amount of violence and violent crime that's
considered acceptable by a reader and considered just a part of the
genre. This is a whole other deal.

It's hard to believe that a company that puts so much attention in there
stories towards the repercussions of an epic fight would allow one of
there editors to take such a "Nope, no rape here!" position.

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Rob Ocelot
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Posted: 31 December 2012 at 10:49am | IP Logged | 8  

Ugh, reading that twitter conversation gave me a headache.  It just reinforces why I find it a horrible means of communication.

Now to the content.  

It's been my experience that a non-obvious troll in a conversation is the first to accuse someone else of being a troll, or states "I'm not trying to be a troll here".  Both Slott and Whacker are guilty of this kind of trolling to varying degrees in their dealings with the various comic press and with fans in online forums.

Let me put it this way: 

A ten year old kid reading a comic about an invisible man might have thoughts about what the main character might do with such power or what they themselves would do in a similar situation.  "I could watch girls undressing" might be one of those thoughts.  Depending on the ten year old the thoughts may be even more straightforwardly sexual.  The author of this type of story should at least have an awareness of their target demographic and either be prepared to answer that question in a softly deflected way in the letters page or obliquely address that issue in the book using some in-story logic.

In a way it reminds me of the Jason Lee/Stan Lee scene in MALLRATS where Jason's character asks Stan if the Thing's penis is made of orange rock.  Stan's response to this a perfect example of the above even if the 'kid' asking is well beyond the target demographic age of the material.

Now we have a situation where your adult reader of a previously-written-for-ten-year-olds comic first thinks of being a rapist with invisibility powers (itself a troubling trend and not a straightforward extrapolation of the ten year old's thoughts) and the adult writer knowing his target demographic all too well includes a scene that implies this interpretation.  The author then chooses to engage the reader in an open forum where the author tells the reader that 'rape' isn't what they intended and that the reader's interpretation of said events is a product of the reader's own sick mind.  The message board is ablaze for a week and the author and his editor essentially ride a wave of free publicity as other news outlets pick up on the controversy.  Rinse, wash, and repeat.

It's already in the 'repeat' stage as Dan already zinged the comic community with the before-the-wedding scene with Aunt May in ASM#698 and the banning threats for online spoilers of issue 700.  This 'rape' thing is just upping the ante a bit.

Yes, it's trolling.  It's still trolling even if Steve and Dan are being paid for it.  In some ways that makes it worse.

Oh, and another hallmark of a classic troll -- the inability to take what they dish out.  Dan may have indeed underestimated his target demographic when he was joking about death threats but is he even the least bit surprised when someone not in their right mind calls his bluff?  Now he's playing the victim when he has been yanking the chain of the comic-related internet for months.  The internet yanked back.  I'm not going to say Dan deserves to be threatened like this but I have to ask if he even stopped to think about the implications of joking about death threats (like it was a badge of honour) before he wrote that twitter? 

If anything I hope this helps to reinforce the boundaries that should be in place between creators and those who consume their product.

Maybe Dan should ask Stan Lee if he ever received any death threats.

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Stephen Churay
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Posted: 31 December 2012 at 12:16pm | IP Logged | 9  


Hey, Slott should be happy. A huge number of people are drinking the
Kool-Aid (I bought it) and he should actually get a nice little check off
of the sales. The sad news is this, there are people like me looking for
a good story even in modern comics from the Big Two. Someone tells
me the Mark Waid run on Daredevil is my kind of book, so I buy the
trade.

I've been told for sometime that I should check out Slotts run Amazing
Spider-Man. So, I looked for a starting point and was going to dive in.
Now, I think I'll save my money for some DC Showcase editions.
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Joe Zhang
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Posted: 31 December 2012 at 7:27pm | IP Logged | 10  

Of course it's not rape, from the villain's point of view. And now that Marvel is trying to sell Spider-Man books starring a villain, they have a vested interest in believing that baloney themselves. 
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Brian Hague
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Posted: 01 January 2013 at 12:23am | IP Logged | 11  

I saw an attempted rape scene in Amazing Spider-Man #700. Doc Ock did not go through with his intentions as he was distracted by reports of Peter's escape. How such a scene is going to be avoided by the storyline in upcoming issues, I have no idea, given Doc's already established interest in following through on that idea. Perhaps Peter's inherent "goodness" that he seems to have unwittingly downloaded will "auto-correct" this defect in Doc's character the next time he attempts it, much the same way Claremont retrofit an "anti-rape" device into Mesmero's control of Jean Grey when X-Men #111 was adapted in Classic X-Men #17.

In any case, aside from the immense amount of time it will take to tell the story in modern terms, I see no real difference in the overall story from any other "villain mind-switch" done previously, and therefore no reason for readers to be up in arms. It's "Kraven's Last Stand" done sideways, with a body-switch twist. It's regrettable that they're stunt-cancelling the title over this (that alone makes the photo of Stan feeding the comic into his office shredder a joy to behold) and unfortunate that they ended the issue with Peter's "death" rather than some nod to his eventual return, but when you're power-stretching a storyline to fit across literally dozens of issues as is done these days, story beats have to come farther and farther apart.

Overall, I found the story entertaining enough, and the interest Doc shows in MJ to be disturbing, especially since he, possessing Peter's memories, has "already" been there any number of times, and is looking now to pursue the relationship under this new identity...

Slott's done excellent work at DC and my appreciation of his basic storytelling strengths is strong. I stopped following him once he became one of the hydra-headed writing team putting out crossover blips rather than stories on the Spider-titles. I could see revisiting his writing via the new "Superior Spider-Man" title, but the MJ thing is going to have to be dealt with in a satifactory manner or it will squick readers, specifically myself, into dropping the title. If Slott goes ahead with a NuPeter/MJ romance, the entire story is going to become about sexually assaulting MJ and her eventually carving Otto's heart out of his chest with a rusty pairs of scissors and feeding it to him. Which is not what I read comics for...

 

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Rob Ocelot
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Posted: 01 January 2013 at 12:58am | IP Logged | 12  

I see no real difference in the overall story from any other "villain mind-switch" done previously, and therefore no reason for readers to be up in arms. It's "Kraven's Last Stand" done sideways, with a body-switch twist.

No need to even go back that far.  Dan Slott did a warm up to this storyline with the Chameleon posing as Peter trying to put the moves on Michelle.  Fandom didn't even blink an eye at that one so perhaps the Spider-man brain trust felt entitled to take it further.
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