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Andrew W. Farago
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 July 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 4079
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| Posted: 29 December 2012 at 1:52pm | IP Logged | 1
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There were some good stretches of stories in The Clone Saga, and if it had been a tighter storyline, maybe stretching through Amazing Spider-Man #400, it wouldn't have gotten such a bad rap. Until the "let's run this out for a full year-plus over the course of four titles a month plus specials" philosophy set in, we were treated to some interesting new characters, crazy plotlines, and a real sense that anything could happen at any time. It was a nice way to shake things up, and gave the Spider-books a much-needed shot in the arm (stuff like Maximum Carnage, Venom essentially getting a monthly comic, Spider-Armor and other storylines of the preceding year just weren't winning me over).
We got too much of a good thing, but it was a blast for a while. And it led to a great run of stories by Todd DeZago and Mike Wieringo, which made it all worth it in my book.
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Adam Hutchinson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 December 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 4502
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| Posted: 29 December 2012 at 1:54pm | IP Logged | 2
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QUOTE:
| And it led to a great run of stories by Todd DeZago and Mike Wieringo, which made it all worth it in my book. |
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Here! Here!
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Stephen Churay
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 March 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 8369
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| Posted: 29 December 2012 at 1:56pm | IP Logged | 3
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Read it. I don't think it's terrible. I think that selling this as "The New
Deal" with as whole new series with a new #1 is the extreme in
overselling. I'm more aggravated at the spin machine behind this than
the story itself.
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Andrew W. Farago
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 July 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 4079
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| Posted: 29 December 2012 at 2:25pm | IP Logged | 4
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This has me wondering how books like Thor #337, Daredevil #181, X-Men #137 and the like would have been promoted and received if the Internet and the media machine (Marvel and DC's need to get coverage/validation from USA Today, Entertainment Weekly, etc.) had been around back then. Would people be (and were they?) up in arms over Beta Ray Bill replacing Thor? Would they have been speculating about that for six months before the issue hit newsstands? Would the death of Phoenix have had the same impact if Walter Cronkite had reported on it the day before that issue went on sale?
Seems like it's harder and harder to just tell good stories and expect the audience to come back every month for it.
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Adam Hutchinson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 December 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 4502
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| Posted: 29 December 2012 at 2:34pm | IP Logged | 5
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Gerry Conway on the death threats:
QUOTE:
Makes me grateful we threw Gwen off that bridge before Twitter
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Link
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Rob Ocelot
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 07 December 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 1231
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| Posted: 29 December 2012 at 2:56pm | IP Logged | 6
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First, remember that Doctor Octopus is "evil" because he has BRAIN DAMAGE. Before his Atomic Accident™, he was pompous and arrogant, but not actually bad. He was turned that way by actual, physical injury to his brain.
A relatively new retcon* to the Doctor Octopus back story is that he had Latent Telepathic Powers™ and accidentally used them to induce an aneurysm in his father. Do explanations and rationalizations like this serve to help creators tell 'better' stories? I mean, isn't brain damage and the inability to discern right from wrong enough of an explanation?
It's humorous that the cause of Doctor Octopus' most recent incarnation (before the mindswap) was due to a writer thinking about "What would be the result of someone as strong as Spider-man beating on someone 'normal' like Doctor Octopus?". To me, that's a kid's question -- or at least the kind of things that kids would dwell upon and come up with their own internally consistent explanations. The trouble begins when an adult or an adult-fan decides to answer the question that no one really wanted or needed an answer to, and in far too much adult-minded detail.
Peter Parker, on the other hand, was a "typical teenager", full of all the angst and envy that goes with that condition, and these were pushed to the fore when he became Spider-Man. His first instincts upon gaining his powers were entirely selfish -- use them to make a million dollars!! This selfishness eventually cost him dearly, and now he is PATHOLOGICALLY DRIVEN to "do the right thing".
I've seen Peter's sense of responsibility jokingly referred to as a 'superhuman sense of guilt' like it's another one of his powers. I guess the joke is now part of the canon. This is a power of Peter's that will be fighting for him beyond the grave. <sigh>
* Not one of Dan Slott's retcons
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Stephen Churay
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Joined: 25 March 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 8369
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| Posted: 29 December 2012 at 2:57pm | IP Logged | 7
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Seems like it's harder and harder to just tell good stories and expect
the audience to come back every month for it.
=====
If that's all they did, I don't think it would be a big problem. It's the
stunts and the epic storylines bigger than the last that's become the
problem. I can't just buy Captain America. I have to buy four different
Avengers titles, Iron Man, Thor and some series I've never heard of,
just to get the story. Oh, and some you won't really have needed.
Welcome to the machine.
To Slott's credit, up to this point, he's written solid Peter Parker
Spider-Man stories. Some good, some not so much. Many have said
it's the best overall run since Lee/ Romita. Its been the one place to
get a Marvel story when the rest of the Marvel Universe had decided
it didn't like itself anymore. Now this is just a story. Maybe a good one,
maybe a bad one. The sad thing is that this title has now joined the
rest of the Marvel Machine.
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Aaron Smith
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Joined: 06 September 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 10461
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| Posted: 29 December 2012 at 3:09pm | IP Logged | 8
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A relatively new retcon* to the Doctor Octopus back story is that he had Latent Telepathic Powers™
***
So what was he then? A mutant?
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Rob Ocelot
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 07 December 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 1231
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| Posted: 29 December 2012 at 3:16pm | IP Logged | 9
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A relatively new retcon* to the Doctor Octopus back story is that he had Latent Telepathic Powers™
***
So what was he then? A mutant?
Everyone's a mutant nowadays.
I mean, how else can you explain how he was able to control the arms when he was separated from them? :-)
It's kind of sad when a writer picks having an extra gene that grants you the ability to defy gravity or whatever as a better and more scientific explanation than having brain damage from an accident.
Edited by Rob Ocelot on 29 December 2012 at 3:18pm
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Francesco Vanagolli
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 03 June 2005
Location: Italy
Posts: 3130
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| Posted: 29 December 2012 at 3:25pm | IP Logged | 10
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Leigh DJ Hunt:
QUOTE:
| What makes me laugh is I CAN see this as a Lee/Ditko tale. |
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I saw echoes of the classic "Master Planner saga" here. A Spider-Man Vs. Octopus trilogy, in which Spider-Man must face impossibile odds in order to triumph. But this time, he loses. Well, for now, of course.
Rob Ocelot:
QUOTE:
| A relatively new retcon* to the Doctor Octopus back story is that he had Latent Telepathic Powers™ and accidentally used them to induce an aneurysm in his father |
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I totally forgot this. Really. When did it happen? Funny how I'm really starting to forget storylines and ideas I considered stupid. When I was a kid, I remembered every comic I read!
Stephen Churay:
QUOTE:
To Slott's credit, up to this point, he's written solid Peter Parker
Spider-Man stories. Some good, some not so much. Many have said
it's the best overall run since Lee/ Romita. Its been the one place to
get a Marvel story when the rest of the Marvel Universe had decided
it didn't like itself anymore. |
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While I wouldn't agree on "the best since Lee/Romita", I absolutely agree on the second point. When I have to explain why I don't follow Marvel anymore (except for Spider-Man), the concept can be summarized in this single statement: "It's not like I don't like them anymore... they don't like ME anymore".
When I buy Marvel, I want Marvel. And I can't find it anymore. Amazing is... was the last oasis. Well, yeah, with Daredevil, but the problem is I never was a big fan of DD.
Now look at this final ASM storyline: body change. Hero in hard situation. Hey this is stuff I'm expecting to see in these comics. It looks like Dan Slott isn't ashamed to make me read superheroes, with no revisionism or "sophisticated" ideas. And for this, I can only say him "thank you".
Edited by Francesco Vanagolli on 29 December 2012 at 3:26pm
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Carmen Bernardo
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Joined: 08 August 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 3666
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| Posted: 29 December 2012 at 5:02pm | IP Logged | 11
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Rob Ocelot wrote:
| It's kind of sad when a writer picks having an extra gene that grants you the ability to defy gravity or whatever as a better and more scientific explanation than having brain damage from an accident. |
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Let's also consider that the original origin of Doc Ock also involved an experiment in nuclear fissile materials which did what it often did in 1960s comicbook fiction by fusing the robot "tentacles" and control panels with his body, giving him mental control over them along with that brain damage. It's almost like the current crop of writers don't have the sense of respect for the character that makes them look at this, and leave it at that. Doc was an arrogant SOB before the accident, but be became a dangerous criminal lunatic afterwards.
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Trevor Phillip
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Joined: 25 June 2012
Posts: 305
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| Posted: 31 December 2012 at 4:26am | IP Logged | 12
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Everything will be back to normal by this time 2013.
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Topic Closed)
