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John Byrne
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Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
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Posted: 15 December 2012 at 7:08am | IP Logged | 1  

Tragedies like this happen, and invariably the Second Amendment is invoked. Except, of course, it isn't. It's the selective reading of the Second Amendment that gets trotted out, the same selective reading that has vexed this nation for centuries now.

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

Nothing in the full amendment guarantees "the right to bear arms". Instead, that right is protected under specific circumstances. Namely, under the assumption that the safety of this Nation is dependent upon civilians forming militias. In 1776, that was true. It has not been true since the United States created its own standing armed forces. The RED DAWN mentality is pure fantasy. As I am sure Clint Ludwick can confirm, if an invading enemy force actually reduced our military forces to such a state that a civilian response was necessary, the game would be over, and we would have lost.

The idea that guns are needed for "home protection" is equally ludicrous. There is no way to demonstrate statistically that such "protection" is truly a factor. Cases where homeowners have defended themselves against home invasion are quickly cancelled out by those in which the homeowner (and his family) finds his own gun being used against him. Elaborate security measures, needed to make sure such guns are "safe", render the argument even more ridiculous. Home invaders are not going to wait politely while the gun owner fetches his weapon from the gun-safe, or removes the trigger guard. (And it it is quick and easy to do these things, how "safe" is the gun?)

The number of actually recorded, provable cases in which a gun in the home has been a valid protection against invaders also has to get around the number of dead children our free and easy access to guns creates on a yearly basis.

Once again, it comes back to the question I ask whenever a situation like this occurs: how many dead kids are too many?

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Shawn Kane
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Posted: 15 December 2012 at 7:10am | IP Logged | 2  

I'm a teacher. My wife is a kindergarten teacher. I have a one and a half year old little girl who I love more than anything. This whole thing is so sad that I can't stop thinking about it especially since they are out of town right now.

We also have to do more for the mentally ill in this country outside of give them a drug and tell them to come back next time if there's a problem. These aren't diabolical madmen doing these acts. These are mentally sick people that society is pushing off to the side.

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Marcio Ferreira
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Posted: 15 December 2012 at 8:45am | IP Logged | 3  

Crazy people do not need guns to kill people, only a pretext. With some frequency, not even the pretext. We should not seek easy answers, against the facts, for issues that challenge our understanding - though I think that one should not carry a gun. But it is a moral choice, not a response to public policy that has no answer.
The U.S. has 300 million people, Brazil, 200 million. In 2010, there were 12,996 people killed in the country (4.3 per 100 000 inhabitants), 8775 with firearms. In Brazil, in the same year, there were 49,932 (26.2 per 100 000 inhabitants) - 35,233 by firearms. And I guarantee that it is nearly impossible for a honest citizen to buy a gun legally (many friends have tried and were unable to).
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Marcio Ferreira
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Posted: 15 December 2012 at 8:50am | IP Logged | 4  

The press - and perhaps not only it - must rethink coverage for such cases. Potential protagonists of tragedies certainly are fascinated by what they watch and find themselves tempted to end their miserable lives with a great event. A more sober coverage, which never showed the killer's identity - even his name should be omitted - may not stimulate sick imaginations. 
IMO, for this type of occurrence, seems that it would be a wiser providence than trying to restrict the sale of guns.

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John Byrne
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Posted: 15 December 2012 at 9:00am | IP Logged | 5  

The U.S. has 300 million people, Brazil, 200 million. In 2010, there were 12,996 people killed in the country (4.3 per 100 000 inhabitants), 8775 with firearms. In Brazil, in the same year, there were 49,932 (26.2 per 100 000 inhabitants) - 35,233 by firearms. And I guarantee that it is nearly impossible for a honest citizen to buy a gun legally (many friends have tried and were unable to).

••

It is an unfortunate statistical fact that Africa and South America claim the nations with the highest per capita deaths by guns. Per 100,000 population, the US clocks in around 12th on a global listing. El Salvador has more than 5 times a many deaths, Brazil more than twice as many.

On the other hand, Canada has half as many deaths as the United States (with 10th of the population), while France has a third. Japan, with its "violent culture" has a tiny fraction of the number of deaths per 100,000 to be found in the US.

No part of which serves in any way to restore the lives of these most recently murdered men, women and children.

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John Byrne
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Posted: 15 December 2012 at 9:04am | IP Logged | 6  

I would be so glad if Obama were remembered and celebrated in US History as the President who finally put an end to the right to bear arms in the constitution.

••

When Obama was nominated for the highest office in this country, this "joke" began circulating:

St. Peter: Name?

Obama: Barack Obama.

St. Peter: Greatest accomplishment?

Obama: I was elected the first Black president of the United States.

St. Peter: Oh? When did that happen?

Obama: About twenty minutes ago.

Nothing could make that come closer to being a reality than Obama attempting to do the sane, rational, humane thing, and getting the guns out of civilian hands.

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Marcio Ferreira
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Posted: 15 December 2012 at 9:15am | IP Logged | 7  

No part of which serves in any way to restore the lives of these most recently murdered men, women and children
+++
Absolutely, and my comment was just to point out that limitations on the right to bear arms, may not be the answer.
I honestly believe that it has a lot more to do with how the media makes these events a big "horror show", whit multiple attempts to analyze the shooter. Sick people may be tempted to end their lives in a big event. That is the only possible answer for me. I doubt there was so much hate in this individual, it seems his willingness to be "know" around the world was more in intense (that is my perception).
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David Plunkert
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Posted: 15 December 2012 at 9:32am | IP Logged | 8  

Do the folks who have guns for home protection take other more reasonable forms of home security first? A fence, security system, a dog that barks and bars on the windows etc would probably offer more home protection without the potential for bloodshed. 

Also... that NRA sticker on your car probably gets your home marked for robbery as a place where a crook will likely find guns when you are away.
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Michael Kane
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Posted: 15 December 2012 at 9:46am | IP Logged | 9  

As the Country and the World for that matter becomes more and more Godless and secular, acts like this will continue .In a world where there is no accountability, and no remorse,,, what is to stop it from happening?? The "lights out " theory of death is of course what this mad man had in mind before he pulled the trigger
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David Plunkert
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Posted: 15 December 2012 at 10:06am | IP Logged | 10  

As the Country and the World for that matter becomes more and more Godless and secular, acts like this will continue .


iiii

That's more than a bit of a load. 
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Matthew Chartrand
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Posted: 15 December 2012 at 10:07am | IP Logged | 11  

 

  If certain types of guns were outlawed, how would the government safely collect the weapons? Seems like there would be a lot of violent standoffs between gun nuts and the police.

  Something should be done, but its hard to see how it could be accomplished. Just banning future sales would be shutting the barn door after the horses were already out.

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Tim O Neill
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Posted: 15 December 2012 at 10:38am | IP Logged | 12  



My pre-teen nephew wants to talk with me about this today.  He's got a heart of gold and is autistic, which can be a struggle.

What do I say to a young man who has trouble understanding human behavior already?  I don't understand this myself.



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