Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login
The John Byrne Forum
Byrne Robotics > The John Byrne Forum << Prev Page of 39
Topic: Another school shooting (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
Author
Message
Brennan Voboril
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 15 January 2011
Posts: 1741
Posted: 14 February 2013 at 1:15pm | IP Logged | 1  
Chekov's gun metaphor is about right: "One must not put a loaded rifle on the stage if no one is thinking of firing it."

Loaded guns around the house always made me nervous.  I don't know the statistics but I imagine a great percentage of the shootings involve family members arguing.  

If I were in charge I'd make people convicted of domestic violence unable to buy firearms.  
Back to Top profile | search
 
David Plunkert
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 03 July 2012
Posts: 536
Posted: 14 February 2013 at 3:03pm | IP Logged | 2  
Loaded guns around the house always made me nervous.  I don't know the statistics but I imagine a great percentage of the shootings involve family members arguing. 

iiii

Apparently the only people who imagine scenarios where their gun could be used against them are people who don't own guns. It obviously never occurred to Nancy Lanza.

The argument could be made that absent a gun a family member can kill you with just about anything at a vulnerable moment....but I think the folks that own guns for home protection are more likely to have crossed a mental line that makes them more readily prepared to kill and are in slightly more danger than the folks who just own steak knives.
Back to Top profile | search
 
John Byrne
Avatar
Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133340
Posted: 14 February 2013 at 3:07pm | IP Logged | 3  
The argument could be made that absent a gun a family member can kill you with just about anything at a vulnerable moment....but I think the folks that own guns for home protection are more likely to have crossed a mental line that makes them more readily prepared to kill and are in slightly more danger than the folks who just own steak knives.

••

Guns make killing EASY. It requires no major effort to raise a gun and pull the trigger. Unlike killing with a butcher knife, or a baseball bat (both on the Favorites list), which not only require a degree of physical exertion -- especially if the intended victim is larger than the would-be killer -- but which, unlike a gun, require the wielder to enter the reach of the victim.

Guns make it harder for the victim to fight back.

Back to Top profile | search
 
John Byrne
Avatar
Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133340
Posted: 14 February 2013 at 3:11pm | IP Logged | 4  
On the News today, an item to the effect that Las Vegas is "celebrating" Valentine's Day by relaxing its gun laws, and couples are invited to come to ranges and shoot the hell out of whatever they want. Free supplies of automatic weapon ammo are being provided by some places.

Sandy Hook was how long ago?

This is why I think the current upset over gun violence and gun control is going to fade into the background in the same way as have previous such peaks in emotion. We are, as a Nation, too stupid to put the lives of our children before our antiquated "rights".

Back to Top profile | search
 
David Plunkert
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 03 July 2012
Posts: 536
Posted: 14 February 2013 at 3:53pm | IP Logged | 5  
This is why I think the current upset over gun violence and gun control is going to fade into the background in the same way as have previous such peaks in emotion. We are, as a Nation, too stupid to put the lives of our children before our antiquated "rights".

iiii

Perhaps my timing was poor or I worded my point clumsily and was mistaken as a gun supporter....but this was the point I was trying to make a few weeks back in regards to the country not giving up the 2nd amendment.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Stephen Robinson
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5835
Posted: 14 February 2013 at 4:18pm | IP Logged | 6  
JB: Guns make killing EASY. It requires no major effort to raise a gun and pull the trigger. Unlike killing with a butcher knife, or a baseball bat (both on the Favorites list), which not only require a degree of physical exertion -- especially if the intended victim is larger than the would-be killer -- but which, unlike a gun, require the wielder to enter the reach of the victim.

Guns make it harder for the victim to fight back.

SER: Have you noticed that when this logic was pointed out to counter the "knives" and "bats" argument, the gun advocates seized upon it to then exalt guns as an "equalizer"? The gentle, petite suburban mother can protect her children from a thuggish intruder with an assault weapon... or the virginal Mary Sue can protect herself from a rapist thanks to the concealed carry law.

Every argument leads to more guns with these people.

Of course, arming the populace tends to come from a position of suburban whites protecting themselves from dangerous minorities. As a black male, I know few other black males who are in a hurry to "exercise our constitutional rights" by carrying around a gun. (You'll notice that's it's *not* black guys walking around downtown Oregon towns or storming the courthouse with assault rifles -- we know that would not end well.)
Back to Top profile | search | www
 
Brian Miller
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 28 July 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 31187
Posted: 14 February 2013 at 5:07pm | IP Logged | 7  

Guns make it harder for the victim to fight back.

*********

The NRA would turn this around and say guns make it EASIER for the victim to fight back. Just make sure you have one.
Back to Top profile | search
 
James Woodcock
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 21 September 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 7793
Posted: 15 February 2013 at 6:25am | IP Logged | 8  

Weapons, as a whole, escalate a conflict. Knives, bats, guns all escalate a conflict or a fight. Once escalated, it is difficult, in the heat of the moment, to bring that conflict down.

What about this is so hard to understand?

There are enough instances that show the laws relating to gun control do not work - people can use high powered weapons and handguns to kill multiple people.The solution to this cannot be to allow armed people to be placed in schools or cinemas (for example). The solution cannot be to just keep saying they are isolated incidents - they aren't. if they were, it wouldn't be repeated. yes, the people involved may not communicate with each other but the process that allows it to happen is a common link.

So, what do you want to do? Keep pretending that these are isolated? That the system works (bar a few dead kids and adults)? Keep protesting you have a right to shoot metal objects and own a machine that enables you to do this?

Or look at what is going on and think something needs to change?
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Robbie Parry
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 12186
Posted: 15 February 2013 at 7:13am | IP Logged | 9  
Guns make killing EASY. It requires no major effort to raise a gun and pull the trigger. Unlike killing with a butcher knife, or a baseball bat (both on the Favorites list), which not only require a degree of physical exertion -- especially if the intended victim is larger than the would-be killer -- but which, unlike a gun, require the wielder to enter the reach of the victim.

***

My dad was a cop years ago. Here in the UK, cops don't routinely carry guns, back then he'd have had a baton and handcuffs (this was long before extendable batons or pepper spray). I believe there were a few times he encountered people using all sorts of things as weapons, like glass bottles or bats. With the aid of his baton, he was able to disarm them.

Had guns been widely available to all and everyone back then (I know our gun laws are different), his baton wouldn't have stood a chance. If someone uses a bat, bottle or knife, there is at least a slight chance he or she can be disarmed without loss of life. With a gun involved, it unfortunately means that several people can be killed before anyone has a chance to do anything.
Back to Top profile | search
 

Sorry, you can NOT post a reply.
This topic is closed.

<< Prev Page of 39
  Post ReplyPost New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

 Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login