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Stephen Robinson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5835
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| Posted: 18 January 2013 at 3:59pm | IP Logged | 1
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ANDREW: Third, the Founders *did* allow citizens to own weaponry that was "military grade" for its day.
SER: This brings up another point. We have more debate about the first amendment as it relates to new technologies such as the Internet than we do about the evolving definition of "gun."
A true "originalist" might argue that the 2nd amendment only protects the right to own weapons that existed at the time it was created.
And when does a "gun" cease to be a "gun"? We don't legally consider a tank a "car" even if it's used for transportation.
Over time, guns have become more and more effective at killing people and easier for people to use with little or no training or physical acumen.
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Steven Myers
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 10 June 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5685
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| Posted: 18 January 2013 at 5:08pm | IP Logged | 2
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Our country still thought a militia could be our main form of defense up until the war of 1812 (200 years ago!) when we found out the militias called up to fight the English and Canadians were ineffective. Since then, we've had a real regular armed forces, and the 2nd amendment hasn't been important.
People who argue 2nd amendment rights, defending themselves against the government, and the need to horde guns so they won't be taken away are both CRAZY and STUPID! And that's a dangerous combination...
We need to stand up loud and oppose these voices!! It's going to be hard, but we can change things in our culture!
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Rod Collins
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: Australia
Posts: 936
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| Posted: 18 January 2013 at 6:00pm | IP Logged | 3
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Steven, I think you are right, if you are going to change public perception and gun laws, you have to stand up to the NRA and its supporters. Right now the NRA seem to be shit scared of what's happening in congress. Why else would they be running their adds proclaiming Obama is a hypocrite because his children are protected by armed security at school. It's a pretty high stakes game that these people are playing, let's hope common sense prevails over NRA dollars in politician's pockets.
Edited by Rod Collins on 18 January 2013 at 6:32pm
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Rick Shepherd
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 June 2012
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1095
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| Posted: 18 January 2013 at 6:40pm | IP Logged | 4
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...aaaaand this is why the mere presence of a gun in a public place (even in the hands of one of those 'good guys' the NRA harps on about) increases the odds of someone getting shot and injured/killed:
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/01/18/newly-hired-school-gua rd-leaves-unattended-handgun-in-student-bathroom/
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Brian Miller
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 July 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 31186
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| Posted: 18 January 2013 at 6:54pm | IP Logged | 5
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On the way home this evening, I saw a billboard showing Hitler, arm outstretched in the "heil" salute with "The Way To Cripple A Nation" in bright red along the very top border and "Remove All Guns From Its Citizens" along the bottom.
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J W Campbell
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 June 2012
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 353
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| Posted: 19 January 2013 at 4:30am | IP Logged | 6
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Brian Miller wrote:
| On the way home this evening, I saw a billboard showing Hitler, arm outstretched in the "heil" salute with "The Way To Cripple A Nation" in bright red along the very top border and "Remove All Guns From Its Citizens" along the bottom. |
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Not only grossly offensive, but also not true.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133340
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| Posted: 19 January 2013 at 6:09am | IP Logged | 7
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On the way home this evening, I saw a billboard showing Hitler, arm outstretched in the "heil" salute with "The Way To Cripple A Nation" in bright red along the very top border and "Remove All Guns From Its Citizens" along the bottom.++ Not only grossly offensive, but also not true. •• The only point on which I found myself agreeing with Judge Bork, back in the day, was when he said the First Amendment was intended to protect the dissemination of INFORMATION. In other words, it should not be seen as protecting anything and everything, only what is provably TRUE.
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Ronald Joseph
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 18 April 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 1784
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| Posted: 19 January 2013 at 1:16pm | IP Logged | 8
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On the way home this evening, I saw a billboard showing Hitler, arm outstretched in the "heil" salute with "The Way To Cripple A Nation" in bright red along the very top border and "Remove All Guns From Its Citizens" along the bottom. ++ Not only grossly offensive, but also not true. This one is currently making the rounds on another social network... 
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Shaun Barry
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 08 December 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 6907
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| Posted: 19 January 2013 at 2:32pm | IP Logged | 9
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Which begs the question: In the 21st century, what exactly, in Obama's character, warrants this kind of paranoia? And do they honestly think an American president would do such a thing? Or even get away with it? Give me a f*cking break.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133340
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| Posted: 19 January 2013 at 2:36pm | IP Logged | 10
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In the 21st century, what exactly, in Obama's character, warrants this kind of paranoia?•• He's Black. And, let's face it, a whole lot of the more rabid gun nuts are White loonies, full of all the worst kind of prejudices. Don't look for rational thought on the gun side of this equation. It accidentally shot itself in the head a long, long time ago.
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Pascal LISE
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 29 July 2006
Location: France
Posts: 1111
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| Posted: 19 January 2013 at 2:49pm | IP Logged | 11
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Appaling country of loonies.
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Thom Price
Byrne Robotics Member
L’Homme Diabolique
Joined: 29 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 7593
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| Posted: 19 January 2013 at 2:53pm | IP Logged | 12
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Has this irrational fear of the government always been there, or is this the aftermath of Watergate still lingering?
(Doubly odd to me that so many Conservatives place their faith in capitalistic corporations, driven almost entirely by greed, while being so distrustful of government.)
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Topic Closed)
