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Rick Shepherd
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Posted: 18 January 2013 at 1:02am | IP Logged | 1  

Just checking that Slate.com 'gun-death tally' - as of the 16th, it's crossed the 1000-victim mark (and just a reminder, that's purely those instances that have made the news pages, so doesn't extend to cases like suicides). A thousand dead since the Newtown shooting, and yet most of them don't make such big waves in the headlines, nor trigger any kind of debate over gun control and the like, because apparently that's only reserved to the mass-killings, not individual tragedies.

To put it in context:

28 dead in one terrible shooting = cause for consternation.

1013 separate cases of fatal shootings over the course of the following month = an acceptable status quo, clearly.

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Thom Price
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Posted: 18 January 2013 at 1:51am | IP Logged | 2  

Interesting read about the Second Amendment: ratified to preserve slavery.
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Robert White
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Posted: 18 January 2013 at 1:53am | IP Logged | 3  

It's easy to forget how relatively young our country is. These deep seeded ideas about needing guns "just in case" the government decides to go on a rampage have only been percolating for just over two centuries, after all. 

I do agree that it's coy and ridiculous to suggest that the most important factor in keeping guns in your home is NOT to protect yourself from criminals, but to protect yourself from the government. Come on. If you want to live in a society, you are constantly putting your faith in the fact that the armed authorities aren't going to start randomly blowing people away on a whim. People seem to forget that the right to bear arms in the 18th century when, conceivably, a large enough dissenting group could cause a big problem, and the right to bear arms today, simply operate on a different scale.  
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Neil Lindholm
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Posted: 18 January 2013 at 2:05am | IP Logged | 4  

I live in a country where the populace is completely unarmed and the government has gone on a rampage, more than once, with more or less impunity. There needs to be a medium. 
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Rick Shepherd
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Posted: 18 January 2013 at 2:16am | IP Logged | 5  

At the risk of sounding particularly dense, what part of the whole 'right to bear arms' bit specifically denotes firearms?

Oh, sure - I'm not saying it doesn't cover them, but considering the sort of weaponry still commonly in use in 1791, I can't help but wonder if it also meant things like a cudgel, sword, hatchet, etc. - i.e., the kinds of hand weapons that'd be commonly available and perfect for the possibility of forming a scratch militia from the citizenry (for example, an axe used as a tool in civilian life = an instant militia weapon).

As I say, I might easily be missing something which deals with that (partly because I'm a Brit who's not totally au fait with all the minutiae of the US constitution, and partly because I'm prone to moments of bone-headedness), in which case mea culpa.

But I felt it worth a mention, because it's another thing that goes relatively un-covered by the media - for all the talk by the pro-gun nutters about 'protecting the constitution' and whatnot, there's very little mention of the time and circumstances they it was written in, and whether or not such things are still valid when applied to the very different state of the US today (my short answer: no - so update the damn thing...).

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J W Campbell
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Posted: 18 January 2013 at 2:22am | IP Logged | 6  

 Michael Casselman wrote:
Is that a better statistic?


Yes.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 18 January 2013 at 6:15am | IP Logged | 7  

It's easy to forget how relatively young our country is. These deep seeded ideas about needing guns "just in case" the government decides to go on a rampage have only been percolating for just over two centuries, after all.

••

It's important to remember, as I have noted many times before, that keeping guns "in case the government decides to go on a rampage" is NOT a protected right under the Second Amendment.

• A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

The Founding Fathers were no dummies. They were not precognitive seers, as some would have them, but they understood their own times very well, and they also understood that the idea of violent revolution, once planted in the minds of the people, would be difficult to dislodge. Thus, they framed the Second Amendment very specifically: the "right to bear arms" exists only in the context of protecting the the state, and as such only in the form of a "well regulated militia", the government being the source of "regulations".

Simply put, the way the Second Amendment is (carefully) phrased, the moment an individual claims his "arms" are for protection against the government, that individual has abdicated all rights under the Second Amendment.

To invoke an old joke, you can't murder your parents and then call upon the mercy of the court on the grounds that you are an orphan.

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John Byrne
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Posted: 18 January 2013 at 6:18am | IP Logged | 8  

Sane, well-adjusted people aren't killing kids. Would abolishing all guns solve the issue? No. The arguement made would be that someone who goes out there with an intent to kill, sans guns, would simply use knives, bombs, etc. But, hey ~ that's OK, since the body counts would be lower, right? They'd be subdued quicker, right? That's all well and good, but you're still probably standing over a few corpses when you say that. Is that a better statistic?

••

Isn't anything that REDUCES the body count preferable to something that INCREASES the body count?

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Michael Penn
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Posted: 18 January 2013 at 7:06am | IP Logged | 9  

...the "right to bear arms" exists only in the context of protecting the the state, and as such only in the form of a "well regulated militia", the government being the source of "regulations".

****

Indeed. Madison original draft and the House version contained a conscientious objector clause.
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J W Campbell
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Posted: 18 January 2013 at 7:57am | IP Logged | 10  

Also worth noting that the Second Amendment was enacted only eight years after the end of the War of Independence. In the intervening years, France, a key ally, had essentially gone bankrupt as a nation, suffered a famine, experienced a bloody revolution and was in the process of re-inventing itself as who-knew-what.

As such, I would imagine that the prospect of the British having another go could not have been far from the minds of the American government of the day and, in the absence of a standing army worth the name, a well-regulated militia would have been a vital part of any strategy to ensure the security of the fledgling state.

Now, I can't speak for either Her Majesty or Her Government, but I'm fairly sure that the threat of British invasion has receded somewhat in the last couple of hundred years, so I think you can safely turn those swords into ploughshares now and, perhaps, enact some sensible gun legislation.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 18 January 2013 at 9:05am | IP Logged | 11  

When the Second Amendment was drafted, it was in response to a real world environment which existed at the time. Potentially hostile nations, indigenous peoples who were not happy about their lands being invaded, and even wild animals.

If we look closely at the phrasing of the Amendment, it seems to me quite clearly created with the idea that this would not always be the case. The reference to a well regulated militia "being necessary" sets the Amendment very much in its time and place. As the years went by, and the tiny new Nation grew larger and stronger, it became less and less dependent upon an armed civilian populace to protect it. In fact, as I have noted many times before, if, today, we were to really find ourselves in a situation where the Army, Navy, Air Force and Marines had been obliterated, and the last line of defense was a bunch of weekend warriors in state "militias", we could consider that war well and truly lost.

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Andrew Bitner
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Posted: 18 January 2013 at 10:46am | IP Logged | 12  

RED DAWN is not a roadmap to a victorious insurrection; it's a right wing gun-gasm fantasy.
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