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Charles Valderrama
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4831
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| Posted: 26 December 2012 at 3:51pm | IP Logged | 1
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Translation - Congress is more concerned with the gun industry's needs rather than the general public. Sad that they'll hide behind convoluted lawsrather than look to fix what's flawed. The all-mighty dollar trumps all.
-C!
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David Plunkert
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 03 July 2012
Posts: 536
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| Posted: 28 December 2012 at 10:50am | IP Logged | 2
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US shootings since Newtown
http://goo.gl/n1t2P
Edited by David Plunkert on 28 December 2012 at 10:52am
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Rick Shepherd
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 June 2012
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1095
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| Posted: 28 December 2012 at 5:47pm | IP Logged | 3
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And that's incomplete data, too. Shocking stuff - more so, because unlike the major tragedies like Newton, the single isolated cases aren't reported on a national/international level. And yet, they all add up..
Another good point in that article, oft-glossed-over: suicides. They're generally unreported, yet are estimated to make up as much as 60% of gun deaths.
Any suicide is tragic, since all it takes is a kind person in the right place at the right time to prevent it (not just moments before, either - I'm talking at any point where someone saying/doing the right thing can turn another person's life around). And no, removing guns from US society isn't going to stop people taking their own lives. But how much easier is it to do so instantly, with one bullet, in a way that's nigh-on impossible to stop (you can intervene in a hanging, since it doesn't take a split-second), and thus how many suicides will be prevented without the person having a gun to hand?
And riddle me this, NRA: what exactly is a 'good guy with a gun' able to do to stop someone taking their OWN life with a gun, eh?
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Jodi Moisan
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 February 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 6832
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| Posted: 29 December 2012 at 9:56am | IP Logged | 4
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There are several things that brought about the shootings.
1. No low cost easy access mental health help. We are cutting more and more programs. Between the shame of dealing with it and no funding, I am not shocked we have things like Newtown.
2. End easy access to guns, it is an unregulated industry. There should be an all out ban on military grade automatic weapons. Ammo needs to be regulated like the allergy medicine sudafed.
3. Violent video games, if we can not stop them from getting into the hands of kids, then they should not be sold so easily. I made each of my kids wait to play the games when they were age appropriate. Some like Grand Theft Auto they were NEVER allowed to own. I also don't let my youngest play all shooting games. But I have seen so many parents let kids as young as 6, play hardcore violent video games. Coke spends millions, trying to show you images, getting you to want to drink Coke, aren't violent video games promoting violence?
4. People have kids they don't have time to parent or can provide a stable life for them. Too many kids are only a by product of sex.
5. No full time parent or grandparents raising most kids, we shuttle them into, who knows what happens there, day care situations. We have allowed a lot of living wage jobs to be sent over seas, parents can't make it without 2 incomes anymore, so no one is watching little Johnny. And when mom and dad finally make it home, they have to rush off to traveling sports teams they have enrolled their kids into. We are raising kids with no real family closeness. We have no time to teach empathy because we don't spend enough time with them.
6. Also people need to put off having kids until they know they can stay together and raise those kids.
Most Americans have one of these on the list and that is fine, it is when you have several that lead to people shooting other people. But no one wants to look inward, they want to point fingers at the other guys and say "You are the problem!"
As a country we need to wake the hell up or more mass shootings will come and go, and more threads like this will have us debating the obvious.
Edited by Jodi Moisan on 29 December 2012 at 10:10am
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Jodi Moisan
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 February 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 6832
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| Posted: 29 December 2012 at 10:08am | IP Logged | 5
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And the whole, they have taken God out schools, so that is the problem bull, makes my blood boil. If that was the root of the problem, why do so many kids get molested by priests in the church? And if I was a believer in God, I would be insulted and angry that a God I believed in, allowed babies to be killed as punishment, because God's name was not being mentioned enough.
And when Churches get behind gun control the way they do women's reproductive rights, I will believe they might seriously be concerned about actually following their bible.
Edited by Jodi Moisan on 29 December 2012 at 10:14am
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Leigh DJ Hunt
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 February 2008
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1570
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| Posted: 29 December 2012 at 11:48am | IP Logged | 6
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Agree with most of your points Jodi but totally disagree with the one about video games.
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Jodi Moisan
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 February 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 6832
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| Posted: 29 December 2012 at 12:20pm | IP Logged | 7
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Leigh so do both of my sons, you are in good company. :0)
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Marcio Ferreira
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 September 2008
Location: Brazil
Posts: 2518
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| Posted: 29 December 2012 at 1:18pm | IP Logged | 8
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Jodi, you should watch this video posted a little while back in this thread.Then let me know if you still believe that video games are the force behind motivation of this attacks. By the way I missed on your list the obvious fact that mass media make the shooters instant celebrities, and THAT is one of the main factors (only you will not hear about that on TV, obviously).
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Jodi Moisan
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 February 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 6832
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| Posted: 29 December 2012 at 10:52pm | IP Logged | 9
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Marcio I do not believe video games "are the force behind" the attacks, I believe it is a problem that has many pieces. I believe shooter video games can contribute to the problem. Lack of access to mental health help and easy access to military grade automatic weapons, I believe are the biggest parts.
Violent video games in the hands of my kids, no problem, they don't have other issues that make violent video games a problem. But I am willing to give up buying them violent video games, if it means we lessen the chance of attacks like the one at Newtown.
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Brennan Voboril
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Joined: 15 January 2011
Posts: 1741
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| Posted: 30 December 2012 at 1:40pm | IP Logged | 10
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Jodi I agree the lack of mental health services plays a big role here along with easy access to guns. I believe there is a database for reporting people but it is - of course - up to the psychiatrists and other doctors to report them.
Video games? Perhaps to the deranged this is a bad influence. That would fit in with the above points on mental health and easy access.
Good points.
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Marcio Ferreira
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Joined: 20 September 2008
Location: Brazil
Posts: 2518
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| Posted: 30 December 2012 at 2:02pm | IP Logged | 11
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Sorry, but I don't buy the reference to video games, for me it is the same logic used in the 50's to say comic books were bad influence. It is all a game played by the mass media companies trying to point fingers in any other format of media for "stealing" their market share.Violent games, violent movies, violent comic books, violent sports, none can be listed in the short list of causes of such attacks. Easy access to guns? Well, that is acceptable considering the impact, not the likelihood of occurrence, an attack with knives or hand guns would certainly produce less damage compared to machine guns. In the end of the day, Jodi raised a very good point when she speaks of mental health support, there is lot more to it than just ban access to guns. That won't work at this point.
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Thom Price
Byrne Robotics Member
L’Homme Diabolique
Joined: 29 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 7593
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| Posted: 30 December 2012 at 2:18pm | IP Logged | 12
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The issue is a vast puzzle made up of many pieces. Some of those pieces are very large (access to guns); others very small (violence in the media). I think blaming video games, TV and movies is using an easy scapegoat, but I don't think it's fair to completely discount their effect either. Would advertisers spend billions of dollars if they didn't think the media had a persuasive effect? Why wouldn't a cumulative exposure to violence then have an equally persuasive effect?
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