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Rick Shepherd
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Posted: 24 December 2012 at 3:39pm | IP Logged | 1  

Bill Collins: Lars,you obviously have not experienced the bureaucracy that envelops the U.K. tax system!

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Bill, funnily enough, having looked up what legal hoops one has to jump through to own a gun in the UK, I'm starting to wonder if the reason few people own guns here is because it's simply too big a headache bureaucracy-wise!

(on a more serious note, it's a pretty impressive how strict the UK regulations are. Most of the 'assault weapons' being discussed currently are top-of the-list, 'Section 5' weapons, where the only things below Section 1 are the most basic air-rifles. And even those guns have to conform to the following:


"Air rifles with a power output of less than 12ft/lb are available to shooters without the need for a licence. For air pistols, the power limit is reduced to 6ft/lb. On no account should owners try to improve the power output of an air weapon because if they exceed these limits, they are considered ‘Section 1’ firearms.

There is no security requirement for air weapons but owners are advised to store them securely so that they may not be stolen or misused by another person.
To use an air-rifle or air-pistol on enclosed private land a person must have the requisite permission and must be legally old enough. It is an offence for a person under 17 years old to be in possession of an air weapon, or ammunition for it, except:
a. As a member of an approved club for target shooting.
b. Whilst at a shooting gallery where only air weapons or miniature rifles not exceeding .23 calibre are used.
c. Whilst under the supervision of a person aged 21 years or over, or whilst shooting, on private premises, including land, provided the missile is not fired beyond those premises.
d. From the age of 14 years old, whilst on private premises with the consent of the owner. No supervision is required."


Once again, these are the rules for air rifles (for example, BB guns). To re-iterate, these are sub-Section 1 in the UK - and yet weapons classed as 'Section 5' ("weapons that are prohibited unless special permission is granted by the Home Secretary") such as AR-15 variants can be bought of the shelf in the US with less hassle than purchasing a new car. The mind boggles...

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Michael Penn
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Posted: 24 December 2012 at 3:43pm | IP Logged | 2  

Our great American Congress passed a law explicitly shielding gun manufacturers, etc.

The Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act. 15 U.S.C.A. § 7902.

"An Act To prohibit civil liability actions from being brought or continued against manufacturers, distributors, dealers, or importers of firearms or ammunition for damages, injunctive or other relief resulting from the misuse of their products by others." 
-- PL 109–92, October 26, 2005, 119 Stat 2095


Edited by Michael Penn on 24 December 2012 at 3:45pm
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Rick Shepherd
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Posted: 24 December 2012 at 4:02pm | IP Logged | 3  

Well, I never thought I'd be backing Piers Morgan on an issue of morality (even feels weird typing that...), but considering that 'even a broken clock is right twice a day', he's spot-on with this one.

Good mention of Dunblaine, too - and the government response to it. Namely, a handgun ban. And of course, we all know how that turned out, with spiralling gun violence in the UK due to a lack of armed professional 'good guys with guns' to take out the 'bad guys with guns'.

Oh, no, wait - that didn't happen. Meanwhile, the US has more guns than citizens at this point, and for the result of that, one only need read/watch/listen to the news. Common sense/logic, 1 - NRA, 0.


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Joe Zhang
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Posted: 24 December 2012 at 6:56pm | IP Logged | 4  

"The police suspect the fire was created as a trap for the first responders."

What do we do now, arm firemen and EMT people? 
 
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Bill Guerra
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Posted: 24 December 2012 at 7:15pm | IP Logged | 5  

"What do we do now, arm firemen and EMT people?"

Of course! You haven't fogotten the NRA's good guys with guns grand idea, right?

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Joe Zhang
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Posted: 24 December 2012 at 9:07pm | IP Logged | 6  

Hey, why not build guns into their equipment? That firehose? It's also a cannon. That stethoscope? It's a gun as well ! 
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Monte Gruhlke
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Posted: 24 December 2012 at 10:47pm | IP Logged | 7  

We're one step away from everyone wearing guns on our hips like stereotypical gunfighters.

Hey, guns don't kill people - they make it so incredibly easy for people to kill people. I doubt we'd see as much weapon-related deaths if guns were banned and replaced with hatchets.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 25 December 2012 at 3:02am | IP Logged | 8  

"...resulting from the misuse of their product..."

Assault weapons such as those used in Newtown were created specifically to kill human beings. That's what they were used for. No "misuse" involved.

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Jean-Francois Joutel
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Posted: 25 December 2012 at 4:37am | IP Logged | 9  

Jack up the taxes on gun purchases, and slap huge property taxes on gun ownership. Make it impossibly expensive to own guns.

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Chris Rock had a bit where her argued that the US didn't need gun control, the US needs bullet control. Make each bullet cost $5000. At $5000, shooters couldn't afford to shoot innocent bystanders.

In actuality, people can make guns at home (someone made a gun with a 3d printer, it lasted 3 shots). Bullets are harder and more dangerous to produce.

The second ammendement says you can bear arms, but didn't say anything about them being loaded.
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Bill Collins
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Posted: 25 December 2012 at 4:44am | IP Logged | 10  

We get Firemen attacked by yobs over here,usually setting fire to cars/bins then pelting them with bricks/bottles,believe it or not,they are not allowed to turn the hoses on them.The latest outrage in the U.S. is particularly sick.
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Stephen Robinson
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Posted: 25 December 2012 at 10:59am | IP Logged | 11  

"...resulting from the misuse of their product..."

JB: Assault weapons such as those used in Newtown were created specifically to kill human beings. That's what they were used for. No "misuse" involved.

*******

SER: It's so clear, isn't it? So, it's incredibly frustrating when pro-gun advocates deliberately misinterpret this reality.

The bloodiest Tarantino film is not intended to drive unhinged young people into a homicidal rage. Neither is the worst video game or comic book.

But a gun is intended to kill. An assault weapon is intended to kill quickly and in great numbers.

Countless people "use" movies, video games, and comic books "correctly" (e.g. for entertainment, without going out and killing people). Anyone who uses a gun correctly kills someone. If it sits in a locked cabinet and never has to be fired, it's not been used. But some people believe that it's served as a deterrent.
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Michael Penn
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Posted: 25 December 2012 at 11:24am | IP Logged | 12  

Unfortunately, Congress specified that "'misuse' means conduct that violates a statute, ordinance, or regulation as it relates to the use of a qualified product." Irony, self-contradictions, and common sense are apparently lost on Congress.

What is most important? 

"The possibility of imposing liability on an entire industry for harm that is solely caused by others is an abuse of the legal system, erodes public confidence in our Nation's laws, threatens the diminution of a basic constitutional right and civil liberty, invites the disassembly and destabilization of other industries and economic sectors lawfully competing in the free enterprise system of the United States, and constitutes an unreasonable burden on interstate and foreign commerce of the United States."
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