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Robert Bradley
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 September 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 4883
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| Posted: 22 December 2012 at 3:02pm | IP Logged | 1
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no-one is stupid enough to suggest that the 'NRA committed these murders'…
Due to their public stances over the years and efforts to block legislation I would certainly call them complicit.
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Stephen Robinson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5835
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| Posted: 22 December 2012 at 3:47pm | IP Logged | 2
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The NRA is a gun-selling lobby. It wants more guns on the streets. When faced with a potential threat to gun sales when a mass shooting occurs, the NRA *always* suggests that the solution is *more* guns. The world is "scary" and the only real protection is to arm yourself.
That awful press conference is like the Tobacco Industry speaking to a family mourning the loss of someone who died from lung cancer and saying, "Wow, you look stressed. Know what would take the edge off? A cigarette."
I have no respect for the organization because it hides its primary objective (selling guns) behind a mask of "liberty." It manipulates and stokes fear in its members. I recall that it begged for donations above the cost of its own dues because of what the Socialist Muslim Obama might do to gun rights. Even though Obama had never made any overture toward scaling back gun rights. I could understand -- though I'd disagree -- with an insurance company lobby trying to raise funds based on the fear of an Obama re-election but the NRA had nothing to fear and KNEW it.
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Thom Price
Byrne Robotics Member
L’Homme Diabolique
Joined: 29 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 7593
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| Posted: 22 December 2012 at 4:11pm | IP Logged | 3
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The NRA is as culpable in gun-related deaths as tobacco lobbyists are in smoking-related fatalities. Their hands are blood red.
Gun advocates love to point to the War on Drugs that the legislation will never stop bad people from doing bad things but I find that a silly comparison. (The War on Drugs is such a dismal failure, I'm not sure I believe the government even wants it to succeed.) But the fight against cigerette use has been effective, if slow. Sure millions of people still smoke, but the practice has decreased 50% since the early 60s.
Sweeping, short term gun reform just isn't going to work. Too many Americans think they're John Wayne fighting Indians. That attitude needs to be chipped away at, just as it was with the once nearly ubiquitous smoking habit. A combination of increasingly heavy taxation, combined with public education that gradually turned smoking into a socially unacceptable behavior, is what did the trick.
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Marcio Ferreira
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 September 2008
Location: Brazil
Posts: 2518
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| Posted: 22 December 2012 at 5:59pm | IP Logged | 4
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Marcio Ferreira
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 September 2008
Location: Brazil
Posts: 2518
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| Posted: 22 December 2012 at 6:15pm | IP Logged | 5
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here's a pretty well-reasoned response by video-columnist TotalBiscuit (he's a bit ranty in style, but it's worth bearing with):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uwAo8lcAC4
++++ Thank you very much for posting this. Brilliant!!!
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Rick Shepherd
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 June 2012
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1095
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| Posted: 22 December 2012 at 6:26pm | IP Logged | 6
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Me: no-one is stupid enough to suggest that the 'NRA committed these murders'… -------------------------------------------------------- Robert Bradley: Due to their public stances over the years and efforts to block legislation I would certainly call them complicit. -------------------------------------------------------- Sorry, I think I could have worded that MUCH better - I was simply responding to the rather absurd attempt to frame this as the NRA actively committing the crime, rather than the actual murderer. Of course we all know that Lanza did the shooting - no-one's saying otherwise.
But 'complicit'? Oh, and then some. And for me, that's all the more heinous a notion - because when it boils down to the question of "do you consider more murdered children an acceptable price to pay for you to feel big by owning a lethal weapon", the NRA clearly answers "YES".
Edited by Rick Shepherd on 22 December 2012 at 6:27pm
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Rick Shepherd
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 June 2012
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1095
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| Posted: 22 December 2012 at 6:45pm | IP Logged | 7
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...ok, just re-read what I wrote above, and it boils down to:
- Gun-nuts can't live without the need to own things designed to KILL PEOPLE. **
- If that means innocent people die as a result, that's fine with them.
So that's people who own murder weapons, who are happy for people to die as a consequence. That's serial-killer 'logic', right there.
...ok, lemme take back all attempts at being 'politically correct' - yes, the NRA-types* (*because it applies to all similar gun-nuts who block reform on the issue) are guilty - here, and any other tragedies of this type.
And as demonstrated above, they're evil to boot.
** another thought to conjure with: there are people who, for some reason have a compulsion to own a lethal weapon, yet who then have the nerve to point the finger at those people who play violent video games.
Surely, it's the people who work out any violent tendencies/macho power fantasties in virtual reality with FAKE guns who aren't the ones we should be worrying about!
Edited by Rick Shepherd on 22 December 2012 at 6:53pm
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Stephen Robinson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5835
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| Posted: 22 December 2012 at 11:56pm | IP Logged | 8
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THOM: Gun advocates love to point to the War on Drugs that the legislation will never stop bad people from doing bad things but I find that a silly comparison. (The War on Drugs is such a dismal failure, I'm not sure I believe the government even wants it to succeed.) But the fight against cigerette use has been effective, if slow. Sure millions of people still smoke, but the practice has decreased 50% since the early 60s.********SER: Exactly. The biggest problem with comparing drugs to guns is that the former is addictive. People who are hooked on something will defy the law. But most people who buy guns legally at present do so for a sense of security, which would certainly fade if you run the risk of being arrested for possession of a gun.That's the lowest hanging fruit. Getting guns out of households of otherwise reasonable people who still wind up with shocking regularity allowing their kids to gain access to guns and killing themselves or their friends. Not to mention the use of guns in heated domestic disputes or suicides.The survivalists would resist but they should not be steering our policy... anymore than the burned-out hippie should be leading the charge on drug legalization.
*******
THOM: Sweeping, short term gun reform just isn't going to work. Too many Americans think they're John Wayne fighting Indians. That attitude needs to be chipped away at, just as it was with the once nearly ubiquitous smoking habit. A combination of increasingly heavy taxation, combined with public education that gradually turned smoking into a socially unacceptable behavior, is what did the trick.
SER: A good point. I think it's less 'gun control' than anti-vigilantism. Most people would agree that we shouldn't encourage vigilantism, so why would we encourage people arming themselves to function as their own private untrained police or military?
Edited by Stephen Robinson on 23 December 2012 at 12:00am
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Bill Collins
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 May 2005
Location: England
Posts: 11300
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| Posted: 23 December 2012 at 2:29am | IP Logged | 9
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I just saw on BBC news,a report in The Independant newspaper claiming that since the Sandy Hook tragedy,500 Americans have been killed by guns...that`s 500 in a little over a week,but because they are single incidents not a mass event,it gets ignored.That`s 500 people,including children as young as 3,that is an outrage.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133334
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| Posted: 23 December 2012 at 4:39am | IP Logged | 10
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Close to 90 people are killed with guns in this country EVERY DAY. Many of those are suicides, "bad guys" killed in police action or by each other, "stray fire", and all sorts of other ways. Still, 90 per day, every day, 365 days per year. Our per capita death rate by gun violence puts us on the end of the spectrum with "uncivilized" Third World nations being ripped apart by revolutions and tribal warfare.
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Marcio Ferreira
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 September 2008
Location: Brazil
Posts: 2518
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| Posted: 23 December 2012 at 7:22am | IP Logged | 11
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"uncivilized" Third World nations being ripped apart by revolutions and tribal warfare.+++ Ouch!
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Michael Penn
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 April 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 12717
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| Posted: 23 December 2012 at 7:54am | IP Logged | 12
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>>...we set out to track mass shootings in the United States over the last 30 years. We identified and analyzed 62 of them, and one striking pattern in the data is this: In not a single case was the killing stopped by a civilian using a gun. Moreover, we found that the rate of mass shootings has increased in recent years—at a time when America has been flooded with millions of additional firearms and a barrage of new laws has made it easier than ever to carry them in public. And in other recent rampages in which armed civilians attempted to intervene, they not only failed to stop the shooter but also were gravely wounded or killed.<<
America has 300,000,000 firearms in private hands. Unless there's a forced buy-back, which seems a political impossibility, are we trying to close the barn door after ...?
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