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Charles Valderrama
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4831
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| Posted: 16 December 2012 at 3:56pm | IP Logged | 1
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Thanks, Jodi - i put up that link on one of my previous posts up thread. Hopefully enough people see it and let this issue prevail in Congress. Enough is enough!!
-C!
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Marcio Ferreira
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 September 2008
Location: Brazil
Posts: 2518
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| Posted: 16 December 2012 at 8:08pm | IP Logged | 2
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But it begs the question: what good is being a celebrity, even a bad one, if you kill yourself and won't "enjoy" the fruits of your labors? This crackpot, like many others that (literally!) bite the bullet when their rampage is done, don't even know the level of infamy they've attained.+++ Madness and their certainty of the envisioned grand finale.
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Marcio Ferreira
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 September 2008
Location: Brazil
Posts: 2518
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| Posted: 16 December 2012 at 8:22pm | IP Logged | 3
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Yep. It's what "we" do.
The majority of Americans are like cats chasing laser pointers around a room. +++ Well I believe we all are doing that these days... Maybe in Switzerland is different, I still laugh when I remember one line in Dilbert where he claim that UFO's are in fact people from Switzerland observing us. In the end of the day, I don't see the "Columbus egg", the miracle solution for these tragic events, it is a combination of: - More responsibility of the media and the press to avoid making these evil lunatics instant celebrities. - Better control on guns, there is no good reason for civilians to have machine guns at home. At least controls should be stronger. - It seems obvious that schools are targets, there should be training and people should be prepared to react to a situation like that. - Zero tolerance on bullying should set the tone on students behavior. - Cientists should study and identify the primary reasons for these lunatics to "target" schools and come up with action plans.
I am just saying that believing that the problem is limited to the guns is short sighted, if there is a solution it will be a package with many actions, not just one.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133334
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| Posted: 16 December 2012 at 9:33pm | IP Logged | 4
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I've been checking the BBC's coverage of this story, for an "outside" perspective. A curious reminder of my British heritage, as the newsreaders pronounce Newtown as "Newton". I wonder why no one corrects them?
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Robert Bradley
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 September 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 4883
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| Posted: 16 December 2012 at 10:09pm | IP Logged | 5
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In 2008 the US Supreme Court ruled that the Second Amendment protected individual rights to possess firearms and to use them for lawful purposes. In 2010 they also ruled that state laws on gun control were limited to the same extent that federal laws are. We can argue whether or not "maintaining a militia" is really necessary anymore, but it really doesn't matter, the Supreme Court has already ruled.
Banning all firearms obviously isn't going to work, so the obvious choice to me is to regulate which and how many firearms individuals can own. I think the overwhelming majority would agree that automatic weapons are not necessary for self defense or hunting. And at some point common sense needs to prevail and there has to be a decision how many firearms are reasonable. A citizen doesn't need an arsenal to defend their home or bring down a deer.
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Richard Marcej
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 23 March 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 111
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| Posted: 16 December 2012 at 11:47pm | IP Logged | 6
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I remember a bit from Chris Rock (goes something like this):
"Gun Control? We need bullet control! I think every bullet should cost $5,000 dollars. Because if a bullet cost five thousand dollars, we wouldn't have any innocent bystanders."
And you know, ever since I heard about this school shooting and the shooting at the mall before it and the shooting at the movie theater before it, etc... I believe there's a germ of an idea there.
The gun nuts and the NRA are quick to thump their chest and constantly remind of us the 2nd Amendment. The 2nd Amendment, as we all know simply states:
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
Nowhere does it say anything about the rights to keep and bear ammunition or bullets. If the pro gun crowd want their guns, then sure, let them buy and keep as many guns as they want. Just make the price and opportunities to acquire ammunition so difficult that they won't have lethal killing weapons lying around their house. Just a lot of arms that they can bear all they like. Just unloaded.
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Monte Gruhlke
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 03 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3303
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| Posted: 17 December 2012 at 12:27am | IP Logged | 7
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As said before, The Constitution implies a well-regulated militia, so regulation was seen as a necessity even back then. Pro-gun supporters even suggest that school shooting tragedies could be curtailed if teachers or other school officials had guns, as if an in-school amateur shoot-out would have any less consequences.
While I understand there are many cool-headed gun owners, more often than not there is a perpetual cycle of "responsible shooters" demonstrating their skewed cowboy response to incidents, such as with the Martin killing in Florida, or even recently here in MN with this.
How many thousands need to die every year due to gun-related violence (intentional, accidental, drunken or otherwise) before we as a nation rethink firearm regulation? For me, the answer is easy. One. One violent gun-related death. And we're well past that quota.
Edited by Monte Gruhlke on 17 December 2012 at 12:27am
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133334
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| Posted: 17 December 2012 at 4:17am | IP Logged | 8
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...the Supreme Court has ruled. ••• As they once ruled that Black people were property. Fortunately, just as the Constitution is malleable, so are the rulings of the Supreme Court. Mistakes can be corrected.
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David Ferguson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 March 2007
Location: Ireland
Posts: 6782
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| Posted: 17 December 2012 at 7:01am | IP Logged | 9
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In my experience of some US gun incidents, gun nuts have used the 2nd Amendment to try to do what it tries to prevent i.e. they have gathered weapons with the intention of overthrowing the government.
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Michael Penn
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 April 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 12717
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| Posted: 17 December 2012 at 7:25am | IP Logged | 10
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...the Supreme Court has ruled.
****
And whether one agrees with any or all or none of its recent Heller decision, let's at least read it clearly and carefully:
"Although we do not undertake an exhaustive historical analysis today of the full scope of the Second Amendment, nothing in our opinion should be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms."
Gun control is not unconstitutional.
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Petter Myhr Ness
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 02 July 2009
Location: Norway
Posts: 3909
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| Posted: 17 December 2012 at 8:19am | IP Logged | 11
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When someone says that this tragedy could have been averted if the teachers and other school personell had guns, that person is - in my opinion - certifiable.
Guns may not be the only problem here, but they sure as hell don't offer any solution.
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Craig Robinson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 November 2010
Location: United States
Posts: 1756
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| Posted: 17 December 2012 at 8:40am | IP Logged | 12
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This is beyond heartbreaking. It's enraging. I have a lifetime conceal/carry permit in Indiana because I was an armed security officer at a medical complex for 10 years. I still have my firearm, but it's been locked and unloaded in a safe for 4 years. If they pass a comprehensive handgun ban, I'll be there on day 1 with bells on to turn my handgun in. The only reason I haven't sold it is that at least it's one less gun on the street. Better locked up and unloaded in my safe than for sale to whomever in some 2nd-hand gun store. I don't conceive of that weapon as home defense. I have 3 baseball bats placed tactically across the house, a combat knife at arm's reach at night, a medium sized house dog and two swords. If someone comes into my house seeking trouble, a gun will be the least of their worries. Even though I have a conceal/carry permit, I have not carried the firearm on my person since the last shift I was on duty. I am just not that afraid in life. I did not watch the President speak because I figured it would just be the same chorus of "enough is enough" he's been singing since the Tuscon shootings. Someone made an interesting point on Twitter Friday: one person tried to light their shoes on fire on a plane and now everyone has to take off their shoes at the airport. Yet here we are again; another mass shooting, "debating" gun control.
Edited by Craig Robinson on 17 December 2012 at 8:44am
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Topic Closed)
