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Robbie Parry
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 12185
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| Posted: 15 December 2012 at 12:07pm | IP Logged | 1
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I have never heard anyone in Britain think like this. It is usually one of the (few) things that I've heard people say they don't like about America: "it's dangerous there as they are all gun nuts".
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I doubt countless Brits want guns, but I have heard it from time to time.
Someone I know thinks we should have gun laws akin to America's. His words were, "I want to defend myself against intruders." Then there was a letter to the Daily Mail a few years ago, arguing for pro-gun laws over here. And there was a person years ago who endorsed it, he went shooting at a gun club. Thankfully, none of these people I mentioned are in the public eye and can't spout their stuff on TV.
It is only a minority and some of it is about ego. However, I am sure there are people here who would like less regulation on gun laws. They are in the minority, but in my experience, they tend to have a loud voice.
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Leigh DJ Hunt
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 February 2008
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1569
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| Posted: 15 December 2012 at 12:20pm | IP Logged | 2
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Yeah well the Daily Mail is the Fox News of our newspapers. :/
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Shawn Kane
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 November 2010
Location: United States
Posts: 3239
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| Posted: 15 December 2012 at 12:25pm | IP Logged | 3
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you get caught with a gun, you get sent to the military...enjoy your service.
Some gun owners would be fine with that. Not everyone who owns a gun is a coward. I'm a gun owner but I'm not against stricter laws and I'm not under the thumb of the NRA. I don't agree with all or nothing approach.
Edited by Shawn Kane on 15 December 2012 at 12:33pm
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Donald Miller
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 03 February 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 3601
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| Posted: 15 December 2012 at 12:38pm | IP Logged | 4
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Some gun owners would be fine with that. Not everyone who owns a gun is a coward. I'm a gun owner but I'm not against stricter laws and I'm not under the thumb of the NRA. I don't agree with all or nothing approach.
I wasn't trying to imply cowardice on anyone's part. Just going for a well regulated militia.
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Shawn Kane
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 November 2010
Location: United States
Posts: 3239
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| Posted: 15 December 2012 at 12:53pm | IP Logged | 5
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I understand. But I do honestly know people that wouldn't have a problem with that.
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Robbie Parry
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 12185
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| Posted: 15 December 2012 at 1:05pm | IP Logged | 6
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Some of the comments on the news site are making me sick. One talked about a 'right' to keep and bear arms and how sacrosanct it is and how the rights came from God, not man, and were enumerated in the Constitution. They said that America will remain armed to the teeth.
Seems like the type of person who doesn't consider the child's right to grow up an equal right to her 'right' to carry a gun.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 135206
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| Posted: 15 December 2012 at 1:24pm | IP Logged | 7
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2) Crazy people intent on murder would still commit murder even if guns were outlawed.•• Of all the foolish arguments in support of gun ownership, this comes closest to being the most foolish. It seems the gun lobby includes many people who simply cannot comprehend SCALE. Simply cannot bring themselves to consider the amount of damage one man with a gun can inflict, quickly, suddenly, before anything can be done about it. Even if the gun is a single shot antique muzzle loader, that's one person potentially dead, at a distance, before people even know what's happening. The more shots, the more potential deaths. Knives, baseball bats, iron pipes -- they just don't have the same sweep. Only thing that does is a bomb, and fortunately bombs are still not the weapon of first choice.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 135206
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| Posted: 15 December 2012 at 1:26pm | IP Logged | 8
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One talked about a 'right' to keep and bear arms and how sacrosanct it is and how the rights came from God…•• Of course! When the Bible admonishes us to kill homosexuals, we have to have something to DO it with, right? And guns are best, in case they try to run away!
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Robbie Parry
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 12185
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| Posted: 15 December 2012 at 2:26pm | IP Logged | 9
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Knives, baseball bats, iron pipes -- they just don't have the same sweep.
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That's the argument I wish more people put forward when debating with those in favour of guns.
My local area is, like any area, blighted by crime. I wouldn't say it's the worst area in England, but it's hardly a paradise. However, when I read the local news bulletin, a lot of robbers or muggers tend to use knives or bats. And thankfully, although it causes injury and shakes store owners or civilians up, at least they are alive. On the rare occasion a robbery is reported in my local area, it's usually some guy attempting it with a bat or a hammer or a knife.
Sure, there have been fatalities, like there would be in any country. However, going by local news reports, when a robber or mugger attempts something with a bat or a hammer, the victim has a chance. If they kick out, other people notice. A lot of cowards on the news have ran away the moment a person fights back. With a gun, they'd do a lot more damage in a lot less time.
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Marcio Ferreira
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 September 2008
Location: Brazil
Posts: 2518
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| Posted: 15 December 2012 at 2:36pm | IP Logged | 10
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Stephen Robinson wrote: Those who support gun ownership claim that anything else was the problem. The following are real arguments I've seen so far:+++ But any of those explain why countries with similar rates of gun ownership have insignificant rates of occurrence of attacks made by crazy lunatics. I stick to my perception, the real problem is that American society addiction to "celebrities" (good and bad) is the issue. Most lunatics that are crazy enough to carry out such a despicable act have many things in common, they felt rejected, they were not popular, they were not recognized, and they believed they final act would be a thunderstorm for the entire country. Reminds me of that Bruce Willis/ Samuel L Jackson movie in which the character have the "revelation" that if he was not the hero, he should be the villain. I have mentioned before that in my country it is nearly impossible to buy guns legally and yet, a lot more people die here due to the use of firearms, so I don't believe that this is the issue. It needs to be acknowledged that there must be a reason (as sick as it was and in any way justifiable to society, but good enough for the evil bastard that killed those children) and that is the answer as to why he did it. Depending on the answer, he could have killed the inocents with knifes just as easily, what we would do? banish knives? I mean, there is too much passion and the answer is not that easy. In my opinion, the media and the press should not bring these sick and sad events to national TV, not the way they do. They should not pronounce the name or give absolutely ANY detail on the perpetrator. It would be a start.
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Thom Price
Byrne Robotics Member
L’Homme Diabolique
Joined: 29 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 7592
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| Posted: 15 December 2012 at 2:40pm | IP Logged | 11
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Knives, baseball bats, iron pipes -- they just don't have the same sweep.
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When the news broke a few days ago about the knife attack in the Chinese school, my first thought was "In America he would have had a gun, and all those people would be dead rather than injured."
And well here we are.
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Marcio Ferreira
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 September 2008
Location: Brazil
Posts: 2518
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| Posted: 15 December 2012 at 2:51pm | IP Logged | 12
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Thom, I am sure that I don't need to remind you that China is an autocracy, the government control their citizens and would not allow them to carry guns. A democratic nation is different, why Switzerland have one of the highest rates of gun ownership by civilians and they do not have as many evil crazy lunatics?As a father, I cannot describe how it hurts when I read or see children being killed or loosing their lives in car accidents, but in my opinion, banish guns will not "resolve" these situations.
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