| Author |
|
Philip Obaza
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 18 December 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 324
|
| Posted: 08 November 2012 at 1:46am | IP Logged | 1
|
|
|
One of the more infuriating was the insertion of several "adventures" between the last page of this story and the first pages of AMAZING SPIDER-MAN 1. To "explain" how Parker could "get so good" at being Spider-Man, as he was by the second story. Hm. All those months becoming a TV star didn't help?----------
Ah, Amazing Fantasy #16-18.
As much as I might have enjoyed Untold Tales of Spider-Man, I think Kurt Busiek went too far trying to insert this "untold tale" into the Spider-Man mythos.
Amazing Spider-Man #1 opens up to me as the perfect continuation of Amazing Fantasy #15. Peter is distraught and upset over having just lost Uncle Ben and immediately focuses on how to make money so he can support Aunt May. Quick, simple, to the point, and totally in-character.
"16-18" adds a lot of unnecessary backstory that we don't need to know and contradicts how Spider-Man really began. Even worse, Amazing Fantasy #18 ends with Peter feeling hopeful about his role as a hero. This totally negates a) Peter's state at the start of Amazing Spider-Man #1 and b) that Peter was not a crime-fighter yet. He went after the burglar to avenge Uncle Ben, but had not yet decided to use his powers to be a hero. He then saved John Jameson's shuttle because it was the right thing to do and gradually began using his powers for good as the series progressed.
Simple stuff that seems to have been forgotten by other "professionals" over the years.
Edited by Philip Obaza on 08 November 2012 at 1:52am
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
e-mail
|
| |
John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132673
|
| Posted: 08 November 2012 at 7:00am | IP Logged | 2
|
|
|
"16-18" adds a lot of unnecessary backstory that we don't need to know and contradicts how Spider-Man really began. Even worse, Amazing Fantasy #18 ends with Peter feeling hopeful about his role as a hero. This totally negates a) Peter's state at the start of Amazing Spider-Man #1 and b) that Peter was not a crime-fighter yet. He went after the burglar to avenge Uncle Ben, but had not yet decided to use his powers to be a hero. He then saved John Jameson's shuttle because it was the right thing to do and gradually began using his powers for good as the series progressed.Simple stuff that seems to have been forgotten by other "professionals" over the years. I attribute the success of Kurt Busiek, as a writer, in large part to his status as fan-turned-pro. He seems so often to do the stories I could easily imagine fans doing, if they were given the chance. He seems very much to like the overly complicated backstories for characters. Witness his turn with the Vision. After I spent some time on AVENGERS WEST COAST tidying up what had become a somewhat labyrinthian "saga" -- without contradicting anything -- he "restored" the complications, and added more! Clearly some fans embrace his work because he is "one of us".
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Robbie Parry
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 12186
|
| Posted: 08 November 2012 at 7:19am | IP Logged | 3
|
|
|
You know, I really don't think the fan-turned-pro thing works in any fiction, it really doesn't.
I saw what happened in wrestling when a fan-turned-pro (who started writing for the wrestling shows) started doing all the things he wanted, even when some of his stuff made no sense.
I think it has been damaging in modern DOCTOR WHO. I think some STAR TREK novels have been fannish and I've seen it elsewhere.
As far as I am concerned, fan-turned-pro never works and, as a follower of things like US wrestling, comics and DOCTOR WHO, I've seen what happens when fannish concepts and the entertainment industry come together.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132673
|
| Posted: 08 November 2012 at 7:53am | IP Logged | 4
|
|
|
fan-turned-pro never works
Never? sob
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Robbie Parry
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 12186
|
| Posted: 08 November 2012 at 7:58am | IP Logged | 5
|
|
|
You and a few others are the exception, Mr Byrne!
I guess a more accurate way of putting it is this: fan-turned-pro never works when the fan-turned-pro uses a fictional universe as his own personal playground, doing what he or she wants rather than what may be best for the character.
As this is your forum, I'll use you as an example. You've said yourself about serving the characters and there's been the sandbox analogy here. That works and you have shown how you put the characters first, like you did with Superman. However, people like Grant Morrison and others project their own views/philosophies onto the characters, which never works.
EDIT - My English teacher used to tell us to be very careful when using the words "never" and "ever". I should have remembered those wise words!
Edited by Robbie Parry on 08 November 2012 at 7:59am
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132673
|
| Posted: 08 November 2012 at 9:10am | IP Logged | 6
|
|
|
My English teacher used to tell us to be very careful when using the words "never" and "ever". I should have remembered those wise words! "Never", "ever" and "always" have become three of my "tick" words. They're basically absolutes, and I have found it is generally wise to avoid speaking in absolutes!
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Robbie Parry
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 12186
|
| Posted: 08 November 2012 at 10:44am | IP Logged | 7
|
|
|
Yeah, I should remember that because their use has annoyed me. My father, who is quite cantankerous with everyone, once told me I "never" answer my mobile phone when he rings, which I don't. Except for all the times I have actually answered it.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132673
|
| Posted: 08 November 2012 at 10:48am | IP Logged | 8
|
|
|
Over the years I have scolded the occasional fan -- and doubtless generated a few Big Bad Byrne stories -- when they have told me I "never draw backgrounds". I point out that since their statement is phrased as an absolute, I need to find only a single instance where I HAVE drawn backgrounds in order to refute it.And there are, of course, rather more than a few such instances!! It is indeed unfortunate that there is a sub-strata of fandom containing people who seem but rarely able to express their "opinions" as anything other than buzz-phrases, and that those buzz-phrases all too often are absolutes.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Brian Miller
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 July 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 30975
|
| Posted: 08 November 2012 at 11:24am | IP Logged | 9
|
|
|
That Page 1 splash is the single coolest image of Spider-Man EVER.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Andrew W. Farago
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 July 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 4079
|
| Posted: 08 November 2012 at 3:01pm | IP Logged | 10
|
|
|
I have found it is generally wise to avoid speaking in absolutes!
I always avoid speaking in absolutes. I never do that. Ever.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
| www
e-mail
|
| |
Gary Olson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 11 September 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 382
|
| Posted: 10 November 2012 at 9:33pm | IP Logged | 11
|
|
|
I've always loved JB's stories and art!
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
e-mail
|
| |
John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132673
|
| Posted: 11 November 2012 at 6:42am | IP Logged | 12
|
|
|
Heh!The use of "always" first started to particularly get on my nerves after i'd been poking around the interweb for a while. I began to notice how some people seemed to use the word to backstop their points of view in what seemed an increasingly and obviously artificial manner. A: I've been thinking of trying to sell castor oil flavored ice cream. What do you guys think? B: I've always thought castor oil flavored ice cream would be a bad idea. Really? Always? I'm surprised the thought has ever occurred to you before this moment! In the end, I suppose, it all comes down to that lazy way we have of using words. When we say "I hate castor oil flavored ice cream," for instance, we don't really mean we expend all the necessary mental effort and energy on this that goes into truly HATING something. When we say "I'm gonna kill that guy," we are not -- well, mostly we're not! -- actually making a threat on someone's life. But, still, except for "dramatic effect", I try to always use words as precisely as I can and never exaggerate. . .
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Topic Closed)
