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David Miller
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 3093
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| Posted: 13 January 2013 at 10:46am | IP Logged | 1
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It's a Mitt Romney quote. I'm making light of the idea that individuals and corporations should be held to identical standards. A swing and a miss apparently.
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Paul Greer
Byrne Robotics Security
Joined: 18 August 2004
Posts: 14191
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| Posted: 13 January 2013 at 10:48am | IP Logged | 2
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I think back to how fandom became angry at JB when he left X-Men. I also recall the anger some parts of fandom held when JB "left" Marvel to work on Superman. It always makes me wonder if fans held that same anger toward Kirby when he jumped to DC. When reading that work I don't see why it wasn't embraced like it should have been. It is some of my favorite comics as an adult, I couldnt imagine young Paul wouldn't have loved it even more.
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David Miller
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Joined: 16 April 2004
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| Posted: 13 January 2013 at 11:08am | IP Logged | 3
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As a kid I though it was cool when creators switched companies. I wonder I fans got mad at Neal Adams for his X-Men run.
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David Plunkert
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Joined: 03 July 2012
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| Posted: 13 January 2013 at 11:33am | IP Logged | 4
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My guess is that the more naturalistic work of the artists that followed Kirby: Buscema, Colan, Romita, etc reflected a ground shift of reader and/or editorial taste and the appearance of Adams was an earthquake. Style aside... Marvel had more artists doing more comics by the mid 60s and Kirby's presence was much less pervasive.
The artists coming in the mid 70's (J. Byrne, Cockrum, Mike Grell, Starlin, Brunner, etc) Sure looked like they were influenced more by Adams and Steranko than Kirby on a surface level. The Kirby influence is still there but its not a driving force.
The exception being Rich Buckler's Kirby cribbing in the mid 70's.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 13 January 2013 at 11:37am | IP Logged | 5
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As a kid I though it was cool when creators switched companies. I wonder I fans got mad at Neal Adams for his X-Men run. •• A thing to keep in mind is that "brand loyalty" is a fairly specific phenomenon. The greater number of readers, back in the day, followed characters, not companies, and not artists. It wasn't really much of concern where particular artists were working. And many a kid wondered why his favorite characters didn't meet up more often, oblivious to the fact that they belonged to different companies. (This persists in civilians. I mentioned a while back that a family I'd just met visited the Studio during the holidays. Mom, Dad, two teenage daughters. I was showing them the art on the walls, and giving them mini-history lessons, and they seemed somewhat perplexed when I tried to explain to them the significance of the two spreads I have from the first SUPERMAN vs THE AMAZING SPIDER-MAN. I could not quite impress upon them that this was, in its day, a BIG DEAL. The idea that Superman and Spider-Man belonged to different publishers seemed somewhat elusive.)
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Robert Bradley
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Joined: 20 September 2006
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| Posted: 13 January 2013 at 12:05pm | IP Logged | 6
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David - I would say that the early work by George Perez had a lot of Kirby in it, and so did Keith Giffen.
Herb Trimpe and Barry Windsor-Smith (both a little earlier I'll admit) were greatly influenced by Kirby (or perhaps even instructed to draw like him like Buckler was on the Fantastic Four).
The great thing about the top artists in the '60s (Romita, Kirby, Kane, Buscema, Colan, Swan, Schaffenberger, Heck, Infantino, Adams, Sekowsky, Andru, Ditko, Wood) is that their styles were all distinctive. You knew who the artist was immediately, even without looking at the credits.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
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| Posted: 13 January 2013 at 12:22pm | IP Logged | 7
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The great thing about the top artists in the '60s (Romita, Kirby, Kane, Buscema, Colan, Swan, Schaffenberger, Heck, Infantino, Adams, Sekowsky, Andru, Ditko, Wood) is that their styles were all distinctive. You knew who the artist was immediately, even without looking at the credits.•• Why, you must be mistaken, Robert! As we know -- being constantly told so by ennui-engorged fanboys -- Marvel in the 60s had a "house style" and EVERYONE was required to draw that way!!!
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John Byrne
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| Posted: 13 January 2013 at 12:25pm | IP Logged | 8
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The artists coming in the mid 70's (J. Byrne, Cockrum, Mike Grell, Starlin, Brunner, etc) Sure looked like they were influenced more by Adams and Steranko than Kirby on a surface level. The Kirby influence is still there but its not a driving force.•• My principle influence, coming in, was definitely Neal*, but there were elements of Kirby and Ditko, and ghosts of Bellamy and Hampson lurking about! –––– * Some may know I "auditioned" for an issue of CAPTAIN AMERICA, back in my fan days. Writer Steve Englehart showed the pages to Neal, who's response was reported to me as "This is okay ME, but what can HE do?" (Years later, Neal did a DOOMSDAY + 1 pinup for CHARLTON BULLSEYE. Upon seeing it, my first thought was "This isn't very good Neal." Then I looked again, and realized what it WAS, was REALLY good ME!)
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Robert Bradley
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| Posted: 13 January 2013 at 12:42pm | IP Logged | 9
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Why, you must be mistaken, Robert! As we know -- being constantly told so by ennui-engorged fanboys -- Marvel in the 60s had a "house style" and EVERYONE was required to draw that way!!!
I think it's a common mistake that fans make - there might have been a house style of storytelling (with Kirby showing Buscema, Romita & Steranko with layouts as an example), but the art for Marvel & DC at the time had a lot of variety.
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David Plunkert
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| Posted: 13 January 2013 at 12:54pm | IP Logged | 10
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David - I would say that the early work by George Perez had a lot of Kirby in it, and so did Keith Giffen.
Herb Trimpe and Barry Windsor-Smith (both a little earlier I'll admit) were greatly influenced by Kirby (or perhaps even instructed to draw like him like Buckler was on the Fantastic Four).
iiiii
I agree Robert, especially about Trimpe and BWS. Although Smith developed away from Kirby after a few years. Giffen was definitely strongly influenced by Kirby but he's coming in a bit later than the mid 70's crew of artists.
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David Plunkert
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| Posted: 13 January 2013 at 1:03pm | IP Logged | 11
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My principle influence, coming in, was definitely Neal*, but there were elements of Kirby and Ditko, and ghosts of Bellamy and Hampson lurking about!
iii
To my eyes... the Ditko influence comes through on your FF run.
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Eric Smearman
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Joined: 02 September 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 5823
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| Posted: 13 January 2013 at 1:47pm | IP Logged | 12
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^ I agree. I think I saw it mostly in your inking at the time.
Edited by Eric Smearman on 13 January 2013 at 1:56pm
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