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Brian Rhodes
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Posted: 02 October 2012 at 2:40pm | IP Logged | 1  

If the Fantastic Four and Avengers took on the Hulk now like they did back in Fantastic Four #25 & #26, we'd have a lead in mini-series, a twelve issue feature with plenty of naval-gazing, and follow-up miniseries to see how it affected everyone in the Marvel Universe from General Thunderbolt Ross to Aunt May.

That was called "World War Hulk".
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Chad Carter
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Posted: 02 October 2012 at 9:27pm | IP Logged | 2  

So that woman is DEAD in that last panel of the HULK page?

Banner and the Hulk are taking turns in dominance at this time, so quickly that one will speak and then the other speak a moment later, and I'll gather Banner was able to assert some control at the last second. It could be argued he barely touched the woman. 

This is a problem with some of Mantlo's writing. He often doesn't put in a simple line to express how ordinary people are struck by the Hulk or Rom and walk away unscathed. In an earlier issue in the run, the Hulk is confronted by townspeople whom he is made to believe are his Rogues Gallery, the Leader, Rhino, Gargoyle, ect. The Hulk attacks them full bore, in kill or be killed savagery. It's never mentioned how they survive the Hulk's attack, even though the Shaper of Worlds in prominent in the ending. 

Anyway: 
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Chad Carter
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Posted: 02 October 2012 at 9:32pm | IP Logged | 3  

As a big Hulk fan growing up, I was always thrilled when the popular Hulk popped up in other comics. As a sales booster, the Hulk was pure green gold in the late-1970s/early 1980s. I'd buy a Hulk appearance almost automatically. I even bought the original SAVAGE SHE-HULK issue one because the Hulk is in it (I don't think he even appears in the mag? Doesn't Banner transform and next we see a hole where the unseen Hulk has fled, or some other gyp?) Even as a kid, I knew She-Hulk was a terrible idea. That the character was somehow nurtured into super stardom simply defies my mind's grasping.
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Chad Carter
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Posted: 02 October 2012 at 9:35pm | IP Logged | 4  

Yep, I was right:
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John Byrne
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Posted: 03 October 2012 at 4:57am | IP Logged | 5  
Even as a kid, I knew She-Hulk was a terrible idea. That the character was somehow nurtured into super stardom simply defies my mind's grasping.

••

She-Hulk and Spider-Woman were both born from listening to rumors. One that turned out to be true, the other not.

In the case of Spider-Woman, Marvel got word that Hanna-Barbera or someone had a character by that name in development, so raced their own into publication. The TV version became "Web Woman".

There was also a rumor that a female Hulk was going to be introduced on the Bill Bixby TV series. This turned out to be a garbling of the "Married" episode, but again Marvel rushed to print with their own version.

She-Hulk WAS an embarrassment at first. The "female Hulk" angle was pretty much all they had, and including the word SAVAGE in the title didn't help. It was Rascally Roger Stern who came to the rescue. He was the one who made the decision that ultimately saved Jennifer: she LIKES being She-Hulk.

This proved so successful a transformation that eventually I stole her!

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Eric Smearman
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Posted: 03 October 2012 at 5:05am | IP Logged | 6  
That Stern is a clever one, no?

Gotta confess that outside of JB's treatment of She-Hulk (particularly
in FF and the "graphic novel"), I've never really liked her much. Still
don't.
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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 03 October 2012 at 6:25am | IP Logged | 7  
Mr Byrne, what is the difference between a crossover and a guest appearance? I must admit, I do use the term interchangeably.
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Greg Woronchak
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Posted: 03 October 2012 at 7:26am | IP Logged | 8  
It was Rascally Roger Stern who came to the rescue.

I remember picking up his Avengers issues where she appeared; I was pretty confused, since I associated 'Hulk' with rage, and yet here was this 'happy', adjusted female version. That being said, I liked her right off the bat, she proved an interesting character for the other members to interact with (just like when she appeared in your FF run).
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John Byrne
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Posted: 03 October 2012 at 8:18am | IP Logged | 9  
Mr Byrne, what is the difference between a crossover and a guest appearance? I must admit, I do use the term interchangeably.

••

A crossover can be a guest appearance, but a guest appearance is not necessarily a crossover.

The key lies in the story. If Captain America appears in an issue of DAREDEVIL, that's a guest appearance. If Cap brings with him a story that started in another title (doesn't have to be his own) then it's a crossover.

So -- story just about Cap appearing in that issue, guest appearance. Story brought in from another title or titles, crossover.

Guest appearance:

Spider-Man drops in on the FF, seeking membership.

Crossover:

Daredevil goes to the FF for help, bringing with him the story from the previous issue of his own comic. (Shows how crossovers usually feature guest stars, too.)

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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 03 October 2012 at 8:26am | IP Logged | 10  
Seems obvious, now. Thanks Mr Byrne.
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Robert Bradley
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Posted: 03 October 2012 at 10:02am | IP Logged | 11  
The earliest Marvel crossovers that I could come up with -

Aug 1966 - TALES OF SUSPENSE #80 & TALES TO ASTONISH #82 - Iron Man & Sub-Mariner
Feb-Apr 1968 - DAREDEVIL #38, FANTASTIC FOUR #73, THOR #149 - Daredevil, Fantastic Four & Thor
Jun 1968 - X-MEN #45 & AVENGERS #53 - X-Men & Avengers

The earliest Marvel guest appearances that I could come up with -

Mar 1963 - AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #1 - Fantastic Four
Mar 1963 - FANTASTIC FOUR #12 - Hulk
Apr 1963 - STRANGE TALES #107 - Sub-Mariner
Jul 1963 - FANTASTIC FOUR #16 - Ant-Man
Sep 1963 - FANTASTIC FOUR ANNUAL #1 - Spider-Man
Sep 1963 - SGT. FURY #3 - Reed Richards
Dec 1963 - FANTASTIC FOUR #21 - Nick Fury
Jan 1964 - TALES OF SUSPENSE #49 - Angel
Jan 1964 - AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #8 - Human Torch
Jan 1964 - AVENGERS #3 - Sub-Mariner
Mar 1964 - AVENGERS #4 - Sub-Mariner
Apr 1964 - FANTASTIC FOUR #25 - Hulk
May 1964 - FANTASTIC FOUR #26 - Avengers & Hulk
May 1964 - STRANGE TALES #120 - Iceman
Jul 1964 - AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #14 - Hulk
Jul 1964 - FANTASTIC FOUR #28 - X-Men
Jul 1964 - TALES TO ASTONISH #57 - Spider-Man
Jul 1964 - X-MEN #6 - Sub-Mariner
Sep 1964 - AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #16 - Daredevil
Sep 1964 - TALES TO ASTONISH - Hulk
Oct 1964 - AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #17 - Human Torch
Oct 1964 - STRANGE TALES 125 - Sub-Mariner
Dec 1964 - AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #19 - Human Torch
Dec 1964 - SGT FURY #13 - Captain America
Jan 1965 - JOURNEY INTO MYSTERY #112 - Hulk
Jan 1965 - X-MEN #9 - Avengers
Feb 1965 - AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #21 - Human Torch
Apr 1965 - DAREDEVIL #7 - Sub-Mariner
Jun 1965 - FANTASTIC FOUR #39 - Daredevil
Oct 1965 - SPIDER-MAN ANNUAL #2 - Doctor Strange
Nov 1965 - FANTASTIC FOUR ANNUAL #3 - Avengers, Daredevil, Doctor Strange, Nick Fury, Spider-Man, X-Men
Jan 1966 - DAREDEVIL #12 - Ka-Zar
Feb 1966 - DAREDEVIL #13 - Ka-Zar
Mar 1966 - DAREDEVIL #14 - Ka-Zar
May 1966 - DAREDEVIL #16 - Spider-Man
May 1966 - TALES TO ASTONISH #79 - Hercules
Jun 1966 - DAREDEVIL #17 - Spider-Man
Nov 1966 - SPIDER-MAN ANNUAL #3 - Avengers, Daredevil, Hulk
Jan 1967 - DAREDEVIL #24 - Ka-Zar
May 1967 - AVENGERS #40 - Sub-Mariner
Jul 1967 - DAREDEVIL #30 - Thor
Jul 1967 - TALES TO ASTONISH #93 - Silver Surfer
Aug 1967 - STRANGE TALES #159 - Captain America
Aug 1967 - X-MEN - Spider-Man
Nov 1967 - AMAZING SPIDER-MAN ANNUAL #4 - Human Torch

Not included as guest appearances - Black Panther, Black Knight, Black Widow and Hercules in AVENGERS; Black Panther, Inhumans, Silver Surfer, Sub-Mariner and Watcher in FANTASTIC FOUR; Fantastic Four in STRANGE TALES;  Hercules in THOR; Ka-Zar, Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch in X-MEN.

(I'm sure there are probably some that I missed.  I tried to avoid cameo appearances)


Edited by Robert Bradley on 03 October 2012 at 11:02am
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Greg Woronchak
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Posted: 03 October 2012 at 11:38am | IP Logged | 12  
DAREDEVIL #38, FANTASTIC FOUR #73, THOR #149

I own those issues (in some dusty longbox) but never read them in sequence! That's pretty cool, thanks Robert!

Is Strange Tales Annual 2 with guest star as well?
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