Thanks Chris & Darren. Your ability to render puts me to shame & envy  though Darren, I really need to concentrate on it, always lets me down.  Case in point...

Thanks for the advice Darren, very good points.  Don't worry about being preachy, any tips and knowledge you have to share is always welcome.  My problem is I'm neither fish nor fowl.  I love your detailed Neary style inks and rendering but I'm more drawn to the dead line style of the Captain America pic for my own stuff.

I plan to make a concerted effort to improve, beefing up on anatomy and finding a style of rendering to define form that suits my stuff and is consistent within the picture.  I 'm starting to think the most important part of rendering is knowing what to leave out and when. 

The most frustrating aspect for me at the moment is that on a good day ( on bad days I can't even write my name) I can produce the line drawing very quickly with a passable idea of where the muscles go but with the rendering, suddenly I hit a brick wall. 

This for example took about 5 minutes all very intuitive over really rough breakdowns, now that it comes to rendering though, my brain shuts down.  Hopefully I can overcome this and with the comments from folks in this thread I see no reason why I can't.