Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login
The John Byrne Forum
Byrne Robotics > The John Byrne Forum << Prev Page of 14 Next >>
Topic: It Keeps Getting Worse... (potential spoiler) (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
Author
Message
Glen Keith
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 04 July 2010
Location: United States
Posts: 851
Posted: 15 September 2012 at 7:00pm | IP Logged | 1  

This would seem to be the ultimate validation for my (mostly successful) endeavor to by and large avoid the X-Men for the last 25 years.


Back to Top profile | search
 
Joe Zhang
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 12857
Posted: 15 September 2012 at 7:40pm | IP Logged | 2  

This does not sit well with me, as with virtually everything Marvel does to try to entice guys like me to read their comics. The death of a character is just a plot point. But done as a Big Event, it becomes pornography. I'm pretty sure I'm not a part of the audience for death-porn.

I'm saddened that so much ink and paper is wasted on shit stories. But I always hope that there are great new characters and stories just around the corner (hello Trio!)




Edited by Joe Zhang on 15 September 2012 at 7:41pm
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Neil Brauer
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 10 February 2012
Location: United States
Posts: 714
Posted: 15 September 2012 at 8:40pm | IP Logged | 3  

Isn't it really just a rehash of this

but instead of telling a compelling story; telling a story that might get them in the NY Daily News?  

Back to Top profile | search
 
Shawn Kane
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 04 November 2010
Location: United States
Posts: 3239
Posted: 15 September 2012 at 9:37pm | IP Logged | 4  

Everytime that I read an interview with someone at Marvel, they say that fans want the characters to develop and progress. But how much of that development and progress means that you change the character into someone unlikable? Totally changing a character's personality into what the writer needs them to be to tell his story doesn't show depth, it shows a lack of being able to write that character. This is what Marvel's "Big Events" have amounted to to me:

House of M- Since Avengers Disassembled (where we had Vision destroyed, Hawkeye killed, Ant-Man killed, and the Scarlet Witch becoming the worst person in the Marvel Universe), people want to kill the Scarlet Witch(?!) and she changes reality. It becomes a world where mutants rule. Result: A bunch of de-powered mutants and one of the most mysterious elements of a popular character is gone because Wolverine gets his memory back. Quicksilver becomes a pathetic villain.

Civil War- A group of superheroes somehow do something stupid that kills hundreds of innocent people, mainly school children (?!) Marvel's heroes draw philosophical lines and Iron Man backs a government initiative to unmask everyone. He basically betrays everyone he ever worked with. Result: The eventual death of Captain America. Black Goliath is killed. The Avengers are a team on the run sitting around and talking all the time. The Thunderbolts are in charge of taking out characters that aren't "cool" enough for Marvel's writers and editorial.

Utopia (not just that storyline but everything leading up to it)- X-Men find out that Charles Xavier is technically a bad person. Because of most of the mutant population being "decimated" Cyclops breaks with the Professor and moves all the mutants to San Francisco. He then moves them to an island where basically he and the White Queen (?!) run everything. Result: Cyclops starts to turn into a bad guy, Nightcrawler gets killed, Colossus becomes the Juggernaut, and Wolverine is put in charge of a Cyclops sanctioned murder squad.

Secret Invasion- Apparently, the Skrulls have been infiltrating the earth for years and replacing heroes. Since everyone is paranoid, the Skrull situation makes it worse. Result: Wasp is killed, Norman Osborn is put in charge of America's security because he shoots the Skrull Queen.

Siege- Gets kind of wonky here for me because this is where they start losing me but since Asgard has been hovering over Oklahoma, Osborn works out a deal with Loki (since Osborn is in charge of a secret bad guy group because he was, you know, the Green Goblin) to declare war on Asgard. Result- Asgard crashes to Earth, Steve Rogers becomes Captain America again (for a while until he becomes Steve Rogers, Agent of SHIELD and Bucky gets to stay Cap), Loki gets killed and becomes a kid that fans seem to like, the Sentry is finally put out of OUR misery.

Fear Itself- You got me. I skipped this one but I do know that Nazi's and Gods worked together and it forced me off of some titles that I was really enjoying. Oh and Bucky got killed but not really and has become that Winter Soldier again.

AvX- I've skipped this but since Marvel wants us to know it's a hit, I've read plenty about it. Once again, I may have some details wrong on this one. Avengers and X-Men get into it over the Scarlet Witch. Somehow Phoenix gets involved, there's a whole bunch of fan fiction written by Architects, and someone very near and dear to most X-Men fans hearts is killed by someone else who is very near and dear to X-Men fans hearts.

And here we are. A bunch of dead people and The Scarlet Witch, Tony Stark, and Cyclops taking their turn at being the worst person in the Marvel Universe, I'd be lying if I said that I didn't enjoy a few things that Marvel puts out (Daredevil and Captain America being the ones I enjoy the most) but what is it about the guys in charge that they have to do that much damage to the existing characters? They claim it's all for the story but what's that story and can we pick another one?



Edited by Shawn Kane on 15 September 2012 at 9:38pm
Back to Top profile | search
 
Ronald Joseph
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 18 April 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 1784
Posted: 16 September 2012 at 12:26am | IP Logged | 5  

Secret Invasion- Apparently, the Skrulls have been infiltrating the earth for years and replacing heroes. Since everyone is paranoid, the Skrull situation makes it worse. Result: Wasp is killed, Norman Osborn is put in charge of America's security because he shoots the Skrull Queen.

See, I think Secret Invasion is a concept that should've been kept in the reserves as a (somewhat weak) "get out of jail free" card.  

If Marvel ever wanted to get back to what they used to be, the Secret Invasion of Skrulls could be brought in to explain why anyone and everyone have been acting out of character for several decades.  They've all been replaced by Skrulls! 

I'd originally written "several years" but the problem stretches back a lot farther than I thought as I started typing.  

   
Back to Top profile | search | www e-mail
 
Ronald Joseph
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 18 April 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 1784
Posted: 16 September 2012 at 12:28am | IP Logged | 6  

Hmmm.  Never mind.

A while back, they came up with "Lyja the Laserfist" as an explanation for Alicia Masters' actions and it wasn't well met by fans.

Dammit.
Back to Top profile | search | www e-mail
 
Petter Myhr Ness
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 02 July 2009
Location: Norway
Posts: 3903
Posted: 16 September 2012 at 12:35am | IP Logged | 7  

But he did not foresee the internet!
--

“In the old days men had the rack. Now they have the Press.”
Imagine what he'd have to say about the internet!
Back to Top profile | search
 
Brett Wilson
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 07 April 2010
Location: United States
Posts: 318
Posted: 16 September 2012 at 1:06am | IP Logged | 8  

I gave up on X-Men when they let Morrison come in and turn Magneto into a drug addict, who was cremating people alive. 
Back to Top profile | search
 
Bill Collins
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 26 May 2005
Location: England
Posts: 11294
Posted: 16 September 2012 at 1:17am | IP Logged | 9  

They may have got people talking,but what about the ones who say nothing,but just quietly walk away and stop buying their comics? I`d rather have people actually reading and enjoying them than talking about the latest lame hype.
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
James Revilla
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 03 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 2266
Posted: 16 September 2012 at 1:20am | IP Logged | 10  

What I did not understand was that back in the DPS Xavier said the only reason he won was because Jean was fighting and trying to help him. In the new comic we are talking about, the phoenix host in no way wants to help him. What makes Xavier think he has a chance in hell? As a longtime fan I was reading that going. "You do know you are going to lose right?"
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Carmen Bernardo
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 08 August 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 3666
Posted: 16 September 2012 at 6:19am | IP Logged | 11  

   That phrase -- You do know you are going to lose -- pretty much sums it up for me right now.  An element of the old storytelling at Marvel (and the Big Two in general) is gone forever.  Why even root for the good guys?

   It all brings back something we've often been told by the Chief concerning a late story arc in his classic X-Men run.  I'm certain that when Chris Claremont took the real victory in "Days of Future Past" and flipped it on its head, making it into inevitable failure, that was the beginning of the erosion of my fandom for mainstream comics.  The fallout of "House of M" nearly a decade ago was the final blow.

   When you find yourself not even appreciating a character because of the fear that successive editorial and creative teams will come in and warp that character into something that he or she wasn't originally portrayed as, why even continue following a comic?  Seeing how they've written the titles within the past decade or two, I've reached the conclusion that the characters have gone from being written like they're actual people having realistic reactions to the imaginary situations in which they found themselves to being little more than ciphers for the Hollywood production guild being brought in to "reinterpret" the genre for "hip, cool" audiences.

   Death-porn and the insinuation that people are really no good, rotten bastards with virtually no redeeming qualities is not the world I'd want to bequeath to my nieces and nephews.

Back to Top profile | search
 
Neil Brauer
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 10 February 2012
Location: United States
Posts: 714
Posted: 16 September 2012 at 7:12am | IP Logged | 12  

When you find yourself not even appreciating a character because of the fear that successive editorial and creative teams will come in and warp that character into something that he or she wasn't originally portrayed as, why even continue following a comic?

........................

That is exactly why I quit reading comics in general and Marvel in particular.  When I was reading an issue I would get this feeling of impending doom.  You start reading and the Sword of Damocles appears over your head.

Back to Top profile | search
 

<< Prev Page of 14 Next >>
  Post ReplyPost New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

 Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login