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Mark McKay Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 2258
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Posted: 17 September 2012 at 2:41pm | IP Logged | 1
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I think Claremont's stories after Secret Wars lacked a cohesiveness. Each story seemed really random, if that makes sense. He regained a little cohesiveness for a smattering of issues during the Silvestri issues, but then it fell apart big time at the end of that run and into the Jim Lee run. That's where I quit.
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Flavio Sapha Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: Brazil Posts: 12912
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Posted: 17 September 2012 at 3:29pm | IP Logged | 2
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Same here, Mark!
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Brad Danson Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 02 May 2007 Posts: 1440
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Posted: 17 September 2012 at 3:33pm | IP Logged | 3
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Cyclops: the worst leader (an interview)
http://doctordisaster.tumblr.com/post/12328429710/cyclops-th e-worst-leader-an-interview
I laughed quite a few times though it is obviously choosing to look at the history in the way the creator WANTS to see it.
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Brian Skelley Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 February 2012 Location: United States Posts: 231
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Posted: 17 September 2012 at 4:27pm | IP Logged | 4
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It did make me laugh a few times
QUOTE:
You had to rebuild the team from scratch. It was the hardest time for me as a leader. There was no one to lead. |
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Brian Skelley Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 February 2012 Location: United States Posts: 231
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Posted: 17 September 2012 at 4:56pm | IP Logged | 5
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A while back I thought that whoever was running Marvel these days was obsessed with Twilight’s marketing. How else could I explain the constant breaking up of the heroes I have known and loved almost all my life into pointless teams. I first noticed it with the X-men’s Schism, where suddenly we had “Team Wolverine” and “Team Cyclops”, which I had seen with “Team Vampire and Team Werewolf” (note: I honestly haven’t read nor seen the movies, but I think I get the gist). Then we had “Team Avengers” and “Team X-men”. Every time it’s happened I’m told that I’ll care and pick a side, which really hasn’t happened. I think the only side I’ve really chosen is the one where I start dropping books from my list. Bendis was right, Prof X was just hanging around doing nothing. They couldn’t sell a “Team Xavier” vs “Team whoever” because they’re obsessed with cramming Wolverine into every role possible. There just wasn’t room for Xavier when Wolverine was running the school for him.
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Brian Hague Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 November 2006 Posts: 8515
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Posted: 17 September 2012 at 5:52pm | IP Logged | 6
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X-Men 201 was the jumping off point for me. As I recall, I bought the next two issues out of habit or momentum, but I stopped at 204 and only looked in occasionally over the years afterwards. I hope those reading my screed on the preceding page realize that it was sarcastic in intent. Cyclops was one of my favorite characters when I was a kid, and in memory, he remains a favorite. He had the element of tragedy that I liked, the need for intense self-control and emotional detachment. He wore a cool, rather specifically non-flashy costume and carried himself capably and with dignity. One of the first Marvel comics I bought was a reprint of his battle against Quicksilver wherein it was demonstrated that Cyclops was an excellent solo hero, and yet still a leader who put the welfare of his team ahead of himself. Seeing the systematic destruction of Scott over the years has been one of the more depressing elements of my long-term fandom. I like Brian's point about Marvel's recent marketing campaigns focusing upon that "pick a side" element. Civil War. The recent X-Men Schism. A vs. X. Now that the trend has been pointed out, I'm little surprised we weren't invited to maybe root for the Skrulls during Secret Invasion.
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Aaron Smith Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 06 September 2006 Location: United States Posts: 10461
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Posted: 17 September 2012 at 6:17pm | IP Logged | 7
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X-Men 201 was the jumping off point for me. As I recall, I bought the next two issues out of habit or momentum, but I stopped at 204 and only looked in occasionally over the years afterwards. *** 201 was my first issue of X-Men. At the time, I liked it. But, having read most of what came before now, I agree that X-Men really went off track at that point and I have no desire to reread anything post-201. The only bright spots in the X-books after that point, in my opinion, are much of Excalibur, some of X-Factor (after they dropped the silly "mutant hunters" idea and before Peter David took over with a stupid new line-up), and of course Hidden Years.
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Aaron Smith Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 06 September 2006 Location: United States Posts: 10461
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Posted: 17 September 2012 at 7:42pm | IP Logged | 8
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Thinking more about that silly X-Men 201 story and how it was obviously written with the intention of getting Cyclops off the team to make X-Factor possible, thus beginning the jerkification of Scott Summers. Now I'm thinking how it could have been done in a much more positive way that would have left Cyclops' heroic character intact and avoided a lot of illogical crap. What happened: The X-Men have joined forces with Magneto after the disappearance of Professor Xavier. Cyclops and Storm have a silly duel to see who will lead the X-Men, Cyclops loses and quits the team to go live in Alaska with his wife and son, Jean Grey turns out to be alive, Scott reunites with Jean, Hank, Warren and Bobby who become fake mutant hunters and abandon Madelyn and the baby. The X-Men, meanwhile, get their asses handed to them during the Mutant Massacre despite having Magneto supposedly on their side and gradually fall apart to the point of almost disbanding and end up living in Australia. What should have happened: Cyclops loses in the duel with Storm and leaves but suspects that the odds were somehow adjusted against him since everyone is acting a bit strangely (trusting Magneto, etc.). He goes off not to leave the X-Men but to enlist the help of Beast, Iceman and Angel. The four original X-Men go back and, with the eventual help of Storm, Wolverine, etc, uncover Magneto's real intentions and realize that Magneto and Mastermind (or maybe Emma Frost) have been manipulating the whole series of events. During the ensuing battle, Madelyn Pryor is killed. When Magneto is beaten and tossed out of the mansion, Cyclops and Storm agree that either of them is capable of leading the X-Men, so why not have two teams operating simultaneously from different locations. Storm remains to lead one team in New York while Cyclops and the other originals set up shop out of Warren Worthington's property in Colorado. At this time, it's discovered that Jean Grey is alive and she joins this team of "West Coast X-Men." There. The original X-Men are reunited as a seperate team from the others, Storm and Cyclops both get to be leaders, Scott doesn't have to be a quitter who abandons his wife to get back together with Jean, and Magneto remains a villain.
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Rob Ocelot Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 07 December 2008 Location: Canada Posts: 1231
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Posted: 17 September 2012 at 8:12pm | IP Logged | 9
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Jesus Araon,
What were you doing in the 90's and why weren't you writing comic books? :-)
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Bill Guerra Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 29 March 2012 Location: United States Posts: 1072
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Posted: 17 September 2012 at 8:43pm | IP Logged | 10
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I always wondered why they just didn't kill off Madelyn Pryor. That would have kept Cyclops safe from decades worth of character assassination and gotten rid of a mistake (Maddy) all in one fell swoop. She was nothing more than a supporting character who seemed to take everything over in both Uncanny X-Men and X-Factor.
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Robert Bradley Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 September 2006 Location: United States Posts: 4879
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Posted: 17 September 2012 at 9:03pm | IP Logged | 11
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Brad:
I started "collecting" X-Men at #167 and held on until about #230...but even as a kid I knew that #200 was the point where I quit liking it. As an adult, I now see that there were serious diminishing returns after #175.
I have a similar story - I enjoyed the book through the point where Paul Smith left, but kept reading until issue #200 and then just gave up on it. I haven't read it regularly since. (it's hard to believe it's been 27 years!)
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Ronald Joseph Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 18 April 2011 Location: United States Posts: 1784
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Posted: 17 September 2012 at 9:50pm | IP Logged | 12
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Because, y'know, Scott killing Prof X just wasn't enough...
UNCANNY X-FORCE. KILLERS.
"The group that we start off with right off the bat is Psylocke, Storm, Puck and Spiral, and we have a few more characters joining the group in the first few issues. In my mind, all those characters are wild cards.
http://www.superherohype.com/news/articles/172731-comics-unc anny-x-force-is-coming-to-marvel-now
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