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Topic: It Keeps Getting Worse... (potential spoiler) (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Shaun Barry
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Posted: 16 September 2012 at 6:31pm | IP Logged | 1  

I've been saying for years now that Stan & Jack did not make "flawed" or "realistic" characters or superheroes... they made them believable.  Big, BIG difference.

 

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Carmen Bernardo
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Posted: 16 September 2012 at 7:16pm | IP Logged | 2  

 Larry Morris wrote:
It turned out to be an ageless sentient bacteria
Isn't that something that appeared in a Marvel comic drawn by the Chief back in the 1990s?  I recall an appearance by Wolverine fighting some giant yellow monster that claimed to have been around since the dinosaurs lived.
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Aaron Smith
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Posted: 16 September 2012 at 7:53pm | IP Logged | 3  

This thread has me wondering what it was that made Cyclops turn out to be the Marvel character who seems to have been shit on the most over the years by the writers and by the segment of fandom that's always seemed to have a problem with him. When I think of Cyclops, who has always been one of my favorite Marvel characters, I think of a heroic young man, devoted to Xavier's goals, who was always one of the three great team leaders in classic Marvel comics (along with Cap and Reed). Why is he the one who always seemed to get twisted around and messed up as trhings started to get ugly at Marvel? What's the great flaw in the character that these writers perceived? I don't see it, yet poor Scott's character has been mangled beyond recognition for years, except for the brief wonderful reprieve of HIDDEN YEARS.
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Michael Todd
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Posted: 16 September 2012 at 9:11pm | IP Logged | 4  


 QUOTE:
what it was that made Cyclops turn out to be the Marvel character who seems to have been $#*% on the most over the years by the writers

He was the deputy leader of Marvel's most popular team, and he was a class act, you know these newer writers couldn't resist destroying that.

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Brian Hague
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Posted: 16 September 2012 at 11:27pm | IP Logged | 5  

Cyclops' sins are that he A.) Brought an apple to the teacher every day and everyone hates that kid, B.) Was immediately set on the wrong side of the kid everyone in class did think was ultra-cooler-than-cool-had-ever-been-before, Wolverine. Really, Scott? You think you can take on our boy Wolverine? Y'know what? Yer a dick! C.) He was written for decades by a man who believed that men who do not live according to a Warrior Ethic are wanting and weak. Such men will always suffer from thumb-sucking bouts of self-doubt and uselessness. Women will always disrespect such men for every woman who has ever lived did so in strict adherance to a Warrior Ethic. All of them. No. Really. They did. D.) He got caught in the switches of an ongoing Marvel Editorial switcheroo on the topic of resurrecting Jean Grey. Since Maddy Pryor could have turned out to be Jean, but didn't, Scott backed (married) the wrong horse and then immediately jumped to other side the minute he saw a better shot at getting back with a back-from-the-dead Jean. Whatta jerk! HIS fault, of course. Not the writers'. Scott's.

Writers who followed those who set the above elements in play saw nothing of any value in the little apple-polishing, thumb-sucking, unfaithful dick who'd been "in charge" of the X-Men for way, way, way too long... That know-nothing needed to learn some manners! Cue dozens of years of Scott being good and properly humbled for his indiscretions.

Now, believe it or not, they are rehabilitating the character. I've said before that the greatest gift a Modern Writer can bestow upon a character under their pen is the gift of Bad-Assedness. Scott finally "got it" when he mercy-killed a dying mutant and got it on with a villainess on top of Jean's gravesite. Then he went on to adopt elements of Magneto's philosophies, run his own team of X-Men outside of Xavier's influence, and sanctioned a Black Ops/ Murder Inc. branch of the team. See how cool Scott's becoming now? A vs. X is the capper. Scott killed the teacher after telling the useless old coot he wasn't his daddy. Ooooohhh, Scott... You da man!! Bendis is makin' this guy all sexxxy now, y'see?

Any modern writer will tell you, Ellis, Ennis, Bendis, any of them. Bendis is doing this guy a big, big favor with this murder. Let's all just hope Scott stays on track and kills a whole lot more people, like a hero should.

Hey, it's the only way the kids are going to respect someone who, let's face it, is still kind of a dick...

 

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Petter Myhr Ness
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Posted: 17 September 2012 at 1:53am | IP Logged | 6  

Anyone doubting that Cyclops always was cool, while at the same time being intelligent and responsible, should re-read the scene where he engages a shell-shocked Wolverine in battle after their first run-in with Proteus, in order to make him snap out of it.

Fantastic character moment from a character who modern comic writers, X-Men movie makers and even fans seem to enjoy taking a dump on.

Cyclops became my favourite X-man after that story.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 17 September 2012 at 4:09am | IP Logged | 7  

From the moment I picked up the first issue of X-Men, when I was a teenager, I knew Cyclops was the coolest character in the group. Maybe the coolest character at Marvel. He had a cool power, a cool uniform, and he was smart and savvy and a lot like I wanted to be.

Sure, the other members of the team were flashier -- especially Angel -- and characters like the Thing, the Torch and Spider-Man had already won big chunks of my heart and mind. But Scott Summers (thank you for that name change, Stan!) was just. . . neat!

Over the years, tho, we've seen a change in fandom, and therefore a change in the people writing the characters. Someone like Scott Summers no longer stands as a reminder of who we'd like to be -- he's a reminder of who we're NOT. And in this age of instant gratification, that's a BAD thing. It's not about aspiring, any more. It's about getting it all NOW. Which is what a character like Wolverine offers. He's all about bad attitude and kicking ass.

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Derek Cavin
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Posted: 17 September 2012 at 4:43am | IP Logged | 8  

Well said, JB.
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Terry Thielen
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Posted: 17 September 2012 at 5:14am | IP Logged | 9  

I've always been intrigued by Cyclops, but I grew up with the X-Men Animated Series on Fox. So, for so many of my friends (and countless countless people I've met since it aired) this is the version of Cyclops (and the x-men) that they know. He's a whiney, stuffy loser. The extent of Cyclops' dialogue in the first 2 seasons is essentially him saying "Jean!" This, on top of all the other things mentioned above by everyone, is why the general public doesn't like him. 
Hell, the movies did the same thing. X-Men: Evolution did a decent job with the character, but everyone is so off model that you can hardly say that it was "cyclops".
So, I was forced to keep my affection for the character on the DL because people would actually laugh if they found out. 
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Steven Myers
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Posted: 17 September 2012 at 5:34am | IP Logged | 10  

Cyclops is a good example of a character who is great because of the challenges put in his path.  He's one of the most powerful characters in the early Marve; universe, and still one of the most powerful characters in Marvel, but his power is uncontrollable.  He keeps his emotions in check like he does his power because he's so afraid to hurt those around him.  He has a turbulent past and no family close to him.  Yet he is obviously a born leader and an inspiration to Mutant like Captain America is an inspiration to soldiers and Avengers.

At least, this is what he should be.

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Aaron Smith
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Posted: 17 September 2012 at 5:35am | IP Logged | 11  

From the moment I picked up the first issue of X-Men, when I was a teenager, I knew Cyclops was the coolest character in the group. Maybe the coolest character at Marvel. He had a cool power, a cool uniform, and he was smart and savvy and a lot like I wanted to be.

***

Even though Cyclops was not quite what he had been in those earliest X-Men stories by the time I came aboard in the 80s, I felt much the same way about him. And there was an added bonus. He was one of those characters, much like Spider-Man, who could make a misfit kid feel a little more confident, especially a kid who had to wear glasses in the 3rd grade.  

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Neil Brauer
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Posted: 17 September 2012 at 6:53am | IP Logged | 12  

 in this age of instant gratification, that's a BAD thing. It's not about aspiring, any more. It's about getting it all NOW. WHich is what a character like Wolverine offers. He's all about bad attitude and kicking ass.

........................

I agree.  But in Wolverine's defense--he wasn't always that way.  There is a panel fairly early in JB's run, with Wolverine looking down through a window at Jean and Scott getting out of a car.  He obviously had a thing for Jean but the feelings were one sided.  It was a HORRIBLE mistake to have Jean and Logan "hook up".  Wolverine worked much better as the wounded outsider trying to overcome things in his past that hurt him deeply; mentally, emotionally and physically.  At that point in his characterazation, internally, he had bigger fish to fry.  When they made Logan into the too cool for school bad boy that every woman wanted and every man wanted to be--the character was changed forever and not in a positive way.

Scott is a reflection of what I see in our society--if you do the right thing, take your job seriously, and BE RESPONSIBLE, you are looked upon as a milquetoast, wimpy, suck up, with a stick up your ass.  We all actually live in Bizarro World.



Edited by Neil Brauer on 17 September 2012 at 6:56am
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