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Brian Miller Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 July 2004 Location: United States Posts: 31180
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Posted: 17 August 2012 at 7:06pm | IP Logged | 1
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I like Frank's inks, I don't like Moyer's inks and I don't like the pencils. I never thought Jack and Spider-Man were a good pairing. He never seemed to understand how to do the webs right on the costume.
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Joe Hollon Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 08 May 2004 Location: United States Posts: 13699
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Posted: 17 August 2012 at 7:06pm | IP Logged | 2
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Wow! I love seeing the pencils compared to FM's inks compared to Royer's inks! Awesome! All three of 'em!
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Flavio Sapha Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: Brazil Posts: 12912
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Posted: 17 August 2012 at 8:28pm | IP Logged | 3
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The pencils only version is unbeatable!
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Stephen Churay Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 March 2009 Location: United States Posts: 8369
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Posted: 17 August 2012 at 9:29pm | IP Logged | 4
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The only reason I dislike Frank's is the he changed the artist's original intent. Royer inked it, Frank redrew it.
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Brian Hague Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 November 2006 Posts: 8515
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Posted: 17 August 2012 at 11:22pm | IP Logged | 5
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As I understand the arguments regarding Jack's contribution to the creation of Spider-Man, it is put forth in Joe Simon's "The Comic-Book Makers" and elsewhere that Simon was working with C.C. Beck on a spider-themed hero, specifically an orphaned youngster who is looked after by a cruel elderly couple. That project fell apart and Simon recycled bits of it into the Tommy Troy/ Fly series he worked on with Kirby. When asked by Lee for new publishing concepts, Kirby offered him something akin to the original "Silver Spider" idea, mixed with the visuals for another unpublished idea of Kirby's called the Night Stalker or somesuch. This hero was a fully grown adult wall-walker with goggles and a gadget-gun. Stan had Jack go ahead with the idea but rejected the results, a brawny he-man with a web-gun, as being standard super-hero fare and not at all what he was interested in publishing. He then reassigned the story to Steve Ditko who redid the visuals and possibly elements of the basic concept entirely. I've never read an account that said that the Spider-Man that finally saw print was Kirby's design or work. What is contended is that Lee and Ditko would not have been working on a wall-walking, web-shooting orphan hero with a spider-theme at all had Kirby not brought them the concept in the first place.
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Mark Waldman Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 August 2006 Location: United States Posts: 1273
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Posted: 17 August 2012 at 11:49pm | IP Logged | 6
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Hmm, interesting, but neither is the Spider-Man I know and love. Miller overpowers Jack. The Royer one is very Kirby, but the bad job at the costume's webbing makes me wishing for Romita Sr and Jr, JB, Ditko, and Andru specifially.
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Brad Krawchuk Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 June 2006 Location: Canada Posts: 5819
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Posted: 18 August 2012 at 12:36am | IP Logged | 7
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(tongue in cheek)
Re: Kirby not getting Spider-Man's webs right - he didn't have time, he was too busy creating the rest of the Marvel universe! The X-Men, The FF, The Hulk, Thor - give the guy a break!
(tongue back out of cheek)
But seriously, I'm not really a fan of his Spider-Man webbing either. Whether that's a speed issue, a genuine lack of interest, a looser definition of "on-model" (this IS a guy who drew characters differently in the same issue, and on several occasions because he was constantly coming up with new stuff and hardly ever looked back) or some other of a thousand different reasons, it's beyond my knowledge to know. He just drew Spider-Man that way, and that's the way he drew Spider-Man.
I'll say this - I'd take that Kirby original ANY day of the week, and I'd proudly show it off as the crown jewel of my collection. Incorrect web design or not, look at the pose, look at the power, look at the energy! It's KIRBY! It's a thing of beauty!
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Frank Stone Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 03 May 2004 Location: United States Posts: 178
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Posted: 18 August 2012 at 3:25am | IP Logged | 8
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Just out of curiosity, I tried erasing the webs:
I think this could look quite spiffy with the correct web design and a clean ink job.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133326
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Posted: 18 August 2012 at 4:30am | IP Logged | 9
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That's pretty much the ultimate "My Crotch is Down Here" version, isn't it?
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William Roberge Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 05 July 2006 Location: United States Posts: 11307
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Posted: 18 August 2012 at 4:43am | IP Logged | 10
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Joel Tesch Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 May 2006 Posts: 2830
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Posted: 18 August 2012 at 4:52am | IP Logged | 11
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I never thought Kirby drew Spider-Man well, and the pencils above show why. Usually got the webbing wrong...in this case, he even left off the spider emblem!
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Wallace Sellars Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 May 2004 Location: United States Posts: 17699
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Posted: 18 August 2012 at 4:56am | IP Logged | 12
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I like the Royer version much better. Same here! I don't care for the version inke by Miller at all.
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