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Michael Todd Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 07 September 2009 Location: United States Posts: 4115
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Posted: 18 August 2012 at 2:48am | IP Logged | 1
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Nah! Marvel's probably made Wanda into a wicken vegetarian by now.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133334
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Posted: 18 August 2012 at 4:36am | IP Logged | 2
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The main thing I'm getting from the Havoc design is that it'll date quickly, seeing how it looks to be based upon the current trend of wearing a tight Under Armor long-sleeve T with baggy jeans or fatigues. Come to think of it, isn't that look already dated?•• What many current costume "designers" miss is that the suits of yore are most certainly not "dated". Often, the style of the artist is very dated -- Golden Age looks like Golden Age, Silver Age like Silver Age, etc -- but the uniforms themselves, until very recently, have been timeless. The odd -- ironic? -- part here is that something like Superman's original costume, to name but one, looks "dated" only because it doesn't have all the flanges and pouches and other impractical elements that have come into popularity in the last couple of decades. But NOT looking like it was "designed" last week by Jim Lee does NOT make an older costume look "dated". This is another word "fans" toss around without any understanding of what they're saying.
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Glen Keith Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 July 2010 Location: United States Posts: 851
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Posted: 18 August 2012 at 5:42am | IP Logged | 3
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For my money, the only costume that look dated are the ones that are the most influenced by current fashion trends. Something like the 70's Phantom Stranger looks horribly dated precisely because they tried to make it "contemporary". What was designed to make him look "hip" now makes him look like an aging hippy. The classic superhero costume was designed outside the trends of fashion, and doesn't seem to date because of that.
It's like Mickey Mouse. The classic design never looks old fashioned or dated (even if the drawing styles do), but when they try to update him (go to any mall and see all the t-shirts featuring a blinged-up, gangster rap Mikey) and it looks "so 5 minute ago" (a saying that is so 5 minutes ago).
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Glen Keith Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 July 2010 Location: United States Posts: 851
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Posted: 18 August 2012 at 5:59am | IP Logged | 4
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Or, to put it another way; I believe it was Harrison Ford who said, "Because I've never been fashionable, I can never be unfashionable." A mantra that should be pinned on the drafting boards of all superhero costume designers.
Edited by Glen Keith on 18 August 2012 at 6:00am
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133334
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Posted: 18 August 2012 at 6:15am | IP Logged | 5
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As I have said so many times before, when we look at Havok's original Neal Adams costume, there is absolutely nothing about it that puts a date on it. Was it designed in the early Seventies? Or the Fifties? Or the Nineties? Or last week?The new one, the latest in an ever lengthening line of messing with perfection, looks "now" -- which means in a year it will look "last year".
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Neil Brauer Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 10 February 2012 Location: United States Posts: 714
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Posted: 18 August 2012 at 6:15am | IP Logged | 6
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Party like it's 1995
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Kip Lewis Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 March 2011 Posts: 2880
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Posted: 18 August 2012 at 8:30am | IP Logged | 7
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Maybe they are like a friend of mine in HS who didn't get these all black costumes like Neal Adams' Havok. He said, black clothes don't look like that. You could say it looks like a black hole, not clothes.
It might be true, but I still liked it.
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Brian Hague Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 November 2006 Posts: 8515
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Posted: 18 August 2012 at 9:42am | IP Logged | 8
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The costume would be perfect for a wannabe Havok sidekick who made his own outfit from things he found at second-hand and army surplus stores. Transforming the three radiating loops from Adams' costume into badly placed stripes in the antithesis of good design work. "How can I take what's unique about this and make it pedestrian? If I can make it flat and ugly as well, that will be a bonus..." Maybe the idea is that they will "flare" when he uses his powers...
Edited by Brian Hague on 18 August 2012 at 9:43am
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Allan Summerall Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 June 2012 Location: United States Posts: 499
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Posted: 18 August 2012 at 6:11pm | IP Logged | 9
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The thing about Superboy's costume that Neil posted,is that if you strip the excess 90's gear(the belts,thigh strap,jacket and shades),underneath I think is a really nice design.
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Rick Shepherd Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 June 2012 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 1095
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Posted: 18 August 2012 at 6:44pm | IP Logged | 10
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Allan - indeed! That's the fundamental difference between the '90s stuff and the more modern 'civilian clothes' look - ultimately, most of the '90s redesigns were pretty good superhero outfits cut along traditional lines, just with a bunch of superfluous, 'trendy' doodads cluttering it up. Easy enough to get rid of, and more a case of bad taste getting in the way than a fundamental attitude problem towards the characters and concepts.
Conversely, the idea of going with the 'plain clothes' look comes as part and parcel of a larger problem - writers/artists (...sorry, forgot - everyone's a 'creator' now, regardless of whether or not they actually 'create' anything...) who don't want to write these characters as SUPERHEROES. It's no doubt a mix of embarrassment and pretension - traditional takes on superheroes are simplistic 'kids' stuff'' after all, so by the same 'logic', going for a bland, 'realistic' look, treating the stories like fan-fiction-cum-soap-opera and so forth is shorthand for 'maturity' and 'sophistication'.
When I see something like THIS:
...with the accompanying 'mission statement' that the writer is trying to treat the 'X' as a brand icon like the McDonalds' 'Golden Arches', I don't need to read a single panel of said comic to know "this writer doesn't get it". Sad to see that this kind of 'deliberately missing the point' is now not just the rule (not the exception), but practically Standard Operating Procedure in the industry (thankfully not everywhere!), and even as far as the movies and other spin-offs (raise your hand, Mr. Nolan!).
/soapbox
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Mike Norris Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 4274
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Posted: 18 August 2012 at 6:46pm | IP Logged | 11
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Why should superhero costumes be "practical"? To me that a sign someone doesn't get superheroes.
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Rick Shepherd Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 June 2012 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 1095
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Posted: 18 August 2012 at 7:06pm | IP Logged | 12
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It's a visual medium, fer cryin' out loud - surely the rule should be "let's go with what will make for exciting visual storytelling" (hello, Jack Kirby and Neal Adams!), not "let's go for drab and mundane"...
Besides, what exactly WOULD be considered 'practical' for someone who flies/fights alien invasions/saves people from burning buildings/etc. - a form-fitting outfit made from ultra-hi-tech fabrics or 'unstable molecules', or hoodies/trench coats/jeans/trainers?
It's like the 'logic' Sam Raimi applied to Spider-Man, which only served to make the entire thing LESS logical and workable than the neatly-thought-out package that Stan Lee and Steve Ditko came up with. I can't fathom the stupidity/arrogance that these folk have when they try to 'improve' the work of the industry legends - did it ever cross their minds that many of the long-standing staples of the genre became staples for a reason?
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