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Aaron Smith Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 06 September 2006 Location: United States Posts: 10461
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Posted: 15 August 2012 at 5:32am | IP Logged | 1
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A year ago or so, I had a conversation with a young man of about 20 or 21 who was complaining about characters not aging when "the world around them does age." He was a customer at my LCS who apparently read a lot of comics and yet had not grasped the idea of the sliding time scale. "Why shouldn't they age?" he asked me. I tried to explain how it ruins the characters, takes them away from what made them interesting in the first place. "But it's not realistic," he complained. I was ready to shout out, "They're superheroes!" but instead I asked who his favorite character was. "Hal Jordan," he said. I pointed out that Hal would be in his 70s now if he had aged from the beginning. I asked if a 70-year-old superhero would still be his favorite. I asked if he wanted his kids, if he ever had any, to be able to read about the same Green Lantern he enjoyed. He finally admitted I was right.
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Terry Thielen Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 May 2012 Location: United States Posts: 480
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Posted: 15 August 2012 at 5:45am | IP Logged | 2
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Does anyone complain about this with Archie comics? Those teenagers have been going to high school for over half a century. They have reflected every teen pop movement to happen.Blondie and Dagwood's kids grew up from infancy to their current ages over the years, but the neighbor boy, Elmo, never aged a day. How realistic is that?
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Bob Simko Byrne Robotics Security
Negative Mod
Joined: 16 April 2004 Posts: 5982
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Posted: 15 August 2012 at 6:53am | IP Logged | 3
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I received a flurry of complaints about Bobby Drake wearing his baseball cap backwards, because, you know, that was not done in the Seventies. ***************************************
We did in my neighborhood!
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Adam Hutchinson Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 December 2005 Location: United States Posts: 4502
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Posted: 15 August 2012 at 7:07am | IP Logged | 4
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So that's where it started!
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133334
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Posted: 15 August 2012 at 8:42am | IP Logged | 5
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I pointed out that Hal would be in his 70s now if he had aged from the beginning.•• You just did something people do a lot. I have caught myself doing it! Hal Jordan debuted in SHOWCASE, Sept/Oct 1959. He was, at that point, a top test pilot, well established at his trade. Before that, he'd been in the Air Force. Cast in the mold of Chuck Yeager, Hal might even have been a fighter pilot in WW2. This pushes him well into his 20s when we first meet him, and possibly even older. Make him 29, like Superman, and this puts his birth year as 1930, so today he would be 82! Even those of us who are in favor of the "sliding timeline" and use the character's "actual ages" to argue against real time, often shave a few years!
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DW Zomberg Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 June 2012 Posts: 444
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Posted: 15 August 2012 at 10:11am | IP Logged | 6
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...a ninety year old Batman would be interesting. At least those idiots are consistent in their lunacy. What really drives me berzerk are those who insist that (especially) teenage characters age, with the implication that they should stop at a certain arbitrary point. If you demand that Peter Parker reach his mid to late twenties, what's the point of having him grown older to begin with? Why is keeping him perpetually 26 logical but not 16?
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133334
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Posted: 15 August 2012 at 10:50am | IP Logged | 7
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Why is keeping him perpetually 26 logical but not 16?•• Wasn't it Roger Ebert who said teenagers used to go to movies to see adults having sex, now adults go to movies to see teenagers having sex? Those who are well past the proper age for reading superhero comics, but who cannot allow themselves to enjoy them in simply a nostalgic kind of way, insist that the character become "adults" so that they, these readers, can justify continuing to read the comics. A 45 year old who reads the adventures of a 16 year old high schooler -- well, he's some kinda perv, right? But a 45 year old who reads the adventures of a 20/30 something with a wife and a career and a mortgage -- well, that's more like REAL LIFE. (Especially the parts about being bitten by a radioactive spider and getting its "powers".)
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Leigh DJ Hunt Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 February 2008 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 1570
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Posted: 15 August 2012 at 11:41am | IP Logged | 8
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I have a weird brain when it comes to comic aging. In my mind, the characters age very very slowly in relation to the world around them. So I don't think Spider-Man is forever 16, I just think that over the last 50 years, he's actually only aged about 10 years or so.
Yes I know it's silly to have such a rule or understanding but it's the way my brain reconciled things once and I've stuck with it ever since.
And characters who I can believe DON'T age at all because of secret formulas or magic or whatever makes things even better for my OCD/autism/call it what you will.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133334
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Posted: 15 August 2012 at 1:15pm | IP Logged | 9
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But inventing "sliding scales" and other such workarounds to explain how the characters CAN be aging, just NOT AS MUCH as they should be, is contrary to the whole fictional nature of these things. Stan and Jack and Steve experimented with aging the characters. In the case of Kirby, it was less a conscious decision than it was a manifestation of the way his art was changing. In the case of Ditko, it was something with which he disagreed, and ultimately was part of what led to his leaving Spider-Man. But in both cases, it wasn't long before the brakes were applied again, firmly. (In the case of the FF for instance, Franklin Richards, who, being a baby, was the most obvious indicator that time was NOT passing "normally", was shipped off to Whisper Hill to live with Agatha Harkness. ) But the "pattern" had been set, and fans and later fans-turned-pro began insisting that Lee and Kirby and Ditko "always intended" time pass in the Marvel Universe. (Even the term "Marvel Universe" was a sign of this. This is not FICTION! It is ANOTHER UNIVERSE!) When "rules" were suggested, there would invariably be writers and editors who would deliberately flount them. Fanzine stuff. And that brings us to right where we are. (Typed on my iPhone. Editing later, when I'm on the computer.)
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133334
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Posted: 15 August 2012 at 1:57pm | IP Logged | 10
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When I was a kid, reading comics, there were three times, principally.THE PRESENT, when most of the stories took place. And that was always NOW. It didn't take me long to realize all the stories were written in the present tense. As an adult, contemplating a career in comics, I realized this little convention meant all the stories took place "now" NO MATTER WHEN THEY WERE WRITTEN. This is why, reading those Superman and Batman reprints that introduced me to the characters, I did not guess they were stories first published as much as a decade earlier. (Admittedly, this was also helped by fashions and automobile designs not changing all that dramatically.) THE PAST, which was "before'. Rarely a specific amount of time "before". Whenever a reference was made to a previous encounter with a villain, for instance, it was usually simple "last time…" or "months ago…" THE FUTURE, which most often was the DISTANT future, not just tomorrow or next week. Centuries hence. And time traveling characters were not bound to the relentless march of real time. They might return a month, a week, a decade later, and for them it could be no more than a day. (Which is why I was vaguely troubled by an AVENGERS ANNUAL, beautifully illustrated by Dave Cockrum, which gave us an OLD Immortus, reviewing his life. Why? Why have a character from the Future be seen as elderly? Sure, he'd get there eventually, but didn't this effectively take him out of play? His younger self would still be running around, but what interest would he be, since we'd seen the END of his story?)
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Michael Penn Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 April 2006 Location: United States Posts: 12717
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Posted: 15 August 2012 at 2:23pm | IP Logged | 11
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I discovered Batman in the late 60s -- on TV, then the current comics, and then a lot of older issues, even going back to 1939. It just all felt like Batman to me. I was a little kid, so also not very sensitive to time passing, but isn't that also the point?
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Michael Penn Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 April 2006 Location: United States Posts: 12717
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Posted: 15 August 2012 at 2:25pm | IP Logged | 12
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Right this second, my 4 year old boy is in the other room watching some of those "Spidey" episodes from The Electric Company. Do you think it remotely occurs to him that these shorts were produced some 40 years ago? And if I told him, how could he even grasp what that meant, or even care? He's just enjoying Spider-Man, here and now!
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