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Philip Obaza
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Joined: 18 December 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 324
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| Posted: 09 August 2012 at 1:49am | IP Logged | 1
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I'm almost embarrassed it's taken me this long to respond to this thread!
Spider-Man has, and always will be, my favorite comic book character. However astray he may be in the current comics, the real Peter Parker (as originally created) is without a doubt one of, if not the, finest superheroes ever.
The first Spider-Man comic I remember was Marvel Tales #37, a reprint of Amazing Spider-Man #52. My Dad read it to my brother and I.
The first full storyarc I read was THE CHILD WITHIN by J.M. DeMatteis, which ran in Spectacular Spider-Man #178-183. It is still to this day, one of my personal favorites. Granted, it's pretty dark for a traditional Spider-Man tale, but I love the way the story psychologically examines Spider-Man, Harry Osborn, and Vermin. Plus, the artwork by Sal Buscema is absolutely stellar. In my humble opinion, no other artist has been able to quite capture Harry's madness as the Goblin in the same way that he did. An example below is from Spectacular Spider-Man #200:
Like Greg, I too grew up reading the comics in the early 90s (in the shadow of Peter and MJ's marriage) and stuck around for the entire Clone Saga ride as well. For what it's worth, I actually enjoyed the story in the very beginning - but then it kept going...and going...and going...and then Peter was a clone...and so on.
I still have fond memories of UNTOLD TALES OF SPIDER-MAN. I haven't read the issues in years and having recently re-read the early issues of Amazing, I'm not sure how I would respond to them now. But back then, with all the chaos of the Clone Saga, it felt nice to read a book that felt like the real, traditional Spider-Man.
ONE MORE DAY was the story that finally led me to giving up on reading the current Spider-Man comics (though I abhor SINS PAST and many of the stories leading up to it).
Despite a new start, the return of the classic costume and powers, and Peter working at the Bugle again, something just felt...off. I didn't connect to any of the new supporting characters and outright detested the current state of the old ones (Harry Osborn comes to mind).
Interestingly, it was after this (and after reading Greg's excellent analysis GREAT POWER, GREATER IRRESPONSIBILITY from a few years back) that led me to purchasing the Marvel Essential Volumes of Amazing Spider-Man, so I could finally read all of the classic stories once and for all (I had read many of them, but never in order from the very beginning onward). I read everything up through Amazing Spider-Man #200 rather quickly and am still slowly making my way through. Reading those old Lee/Ditko and Lee/Romita stories...I just get lost in how much fun they are. THIS is Spider-Man. The character that is sorely missing in today's comics.
Greg, those horrid developments you list in the opening post practically make my skin crawl. I certainly don't feel like I'm missing out on anything! Furthermore, anytime I'm at a comic store, I try to glance at the most recent issues of Amazing Spider-Man and I can barely look at them. All the artwork looks so dark and murky and the stories seem confusing and out-of-place. It all just looks so wrong to me.
However, despite the present state of the character, I still have my old comics and can enjoy the Spider-Man that I know anytime I want.
Hopefully, someday, a great writer will come along and make that possible with the current books.
Edited by Philip Obaza on 09 August 2012 at 12:18pm
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Terry Thielen
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Joined: 30 May 2012
Location: United States
Posts: 480
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| Posted: 09 August 2012 at 5:13am | IP Logged | 2
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I loved The Death of Vermin story arc. I loved the artwork.
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Bill Guerra
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Joined: 29 March 2012
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Posts: 1072
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| Posted: 09 August 2012 at 8:47am | IP Logged | 3
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One day I'm going to borrow Doom's time platform and use it to go back to the 90's and put a stop to the Clone Saga before it begins. At least some alternate reality will be spared the horrors of that storyline.
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Brad Krawchuk
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Joined: 19 June 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 5814
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| Posted: 09 August 2012 at 10:42am | IP Logged | 4
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I gave up right around the beginning of the Clone Saga. Marvel released a promo book with spoiler information, like Doc Ock dying, Aunt May dying... and Peter being the clone!
Well, said my 14 year old self - if the Spider-Man I've been reading since before I even knew how to read isn't real, and some guy who supposedly died years before I was even born is real, then I guess I'd better stop collecting comics.
Looking back, I was both right and wrong to think that way. Right because it was a stupid gimmick. Wrong because looking at the current state of comics, I WISH more of them would go back to the way they were before 1980! Oh little how I knew how much WORSE things would get than having a clone be the real guy!
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Greg Kirkman
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Joined: 12 May 2006
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| Posted: 09 August 2012 at 11:02am | IP Logged | 5
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I still can't decide which moment is the nadir of the Clone Saga-- Peter being "revealed" as the clone and smacking his pregnant wife... 
...or MAXIMUM CLONAGE: OMEGA, the ultimate expression of how insane and marketing-driven the storyline had become, and a contender for the worst Spider-Man comic ever produced. Complete with holofoil cover! 
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Michael Todd
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Joined: 07 September 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 4115
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| Posted: 09 August 2012 at 11:13am | IP Logged | 6
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First Hank Pym hit Jan then Peter hit Mary Jane? What was up at Marvel?
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Greg Kirkman
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| Posted: 09 August 2012 at 11:13am | IP Logged | 7
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By the way, has anyone here checked out DeFalco and Mackie's recent six-issue CLONE SAGA series, which condenses the storyline and presents an approximation of how it was originally intended to be told?
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Bill Guerra
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| Posted: 09 August 2012 at 11:46am | IP Logged | 8
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If you're interested in seeing how the Clone Saga ran off the rails and you have a lot of spare reading time, you can check this out: http://lifeofreillyarchives.blogspot.com/ Its been a couple of years since I read thru it, but it was rather informative.
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Brad Krawchuk
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| Posted: 09 August 2012 at 11:52am | IP Logged | 9
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It's okay that he hit that pregnant woman, Greg - they weren't really married, they were just living together. Thanks Mephisto, for making Spider-Man NOT a wife-beater!
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Greg Kirkman
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| Posted: 09 August 2012 at 11:55am | IP Logged | 10
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Interestingly, it was after this (and after reading Greg's excellent analysis GREAT POWER, GREATER IRRESPONSIBILITY from a few years back) that led me to purchasing the Marvel Essential Volumes of Amazing Spider-Man, so I could finally read all of the classic stores once and for all (I had read many of them, but never in order from the very beginning onward). ++++++++++ Looking back on that, I'm a wee bit embarrassed by the whole thing. It was intended as a rebuttal to JMS' dredging up of Gwen and turning her into a lying, cheating whore in SINS PAST, the story that got me to quit modern comics. In retrospect, it kinda comes off as being written by someone who's obsessed with Gwen and her status as "sacrificial virgin" in Spider-lore, when my point was actually that writers should just let her go and leave it alone! Spewing out that essay was a very cathartic experience, though! I'm sure I could do a much much better and more balanced job, were I to write it today.
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Philip Obaza
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 18 December 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 324
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| Posted: 09 August 2012 at 12:42pm | IP Logged | 11
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I still can't decide which moment is the nadir of the Clone Saga--
Peter being "revealed" as the clone and smacking his pregnant wife...
...or MAXIMUM CLONAGE: OMEGA, the ultimate expression of how insane and marketing-driven the storyline had become, and a contender for the worst Spider-Man comic ever produced. Complete with holofoil cover!
----------
I would have to say the former. The latter is a shining example of the industry at its ugliest, but nowhere near as damaging (and out-of-character).
For me, the Clone Saga really began to unravel after the "death" of Aunt May in Amazing Spider-Man #400. If TPTB at the time had just allowed the story to wrap there (with Ben Reilly leaving the city and the Jackal locked away in Ravencroft), I think we would have came away with a decent story, or at least one that did not tarnish the character so badly.
But then, that doesn't really make Spider-Man the hip, single, fun-loving guy he used to be, which was the whole point of the second Clone Saga in the first place!
Edited by Philip Obaza on 09 August 2012 at 12:44pm
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Greg Kirkman
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| Posted: 09 August 2012 at 1:11pm | IP Logged | 12
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It's okay that he hit that pregnant woman, Greg - they weren't really married, they were just living together. Thanks Mephisto, for making Spider-Man NOT a wife-beater! ++++++++++ I find it interesting that Mephisto was considered as the "out" for the Clone Saga (involving a time loop that allowed for Peter AND Ben to both be the genuine article), but that idea was nixed because he was deemed inappropriate as a Spider-villain. Cut to 2008, and ONE MORE DAY...
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Topic Closed)
