QUOTE: I kind of prefer Spider-Man to scuttle a little bit against normal foes, like back in the Ditko Enforcers days.

So do I.

Speaking as someone who likes the 70s TV series - and it lived up to my nostalgia when I saw it recently - I did, as a kid, tune in hoping to see The Lizard or Green Goblin. In the same sort of way that I'd tune into the Hulk series as a kid, wondering when the US Army or The Leader would tune in. Ah, the expectations of being a kid, eh?

However, objectively speaking, I did like some of the street level stories. Yes, Spider-Man was less powerful in the TV series, when fighting thugs in unarmed combat. However, I liked some episodes, including the two-parter "The Deadly Dust" where Robert Alda played a villain who, along with his henchmen, had stolen an atomic bomb. Lots of great fights and stunts in the episodes.

Lots of great fights and stunts in the episodes.

++++++++++

The Spider-stuntman hanging from the helicopter, in particular, is a memorable moment.

QUOTE: The Spider-stuntman hanging from the helicopter, in particular, is a memorable moment.

Indeed. I wouldn't have done that stunt, no matter how much they paid me.

When some people criticize the stunts of the series, they often focus on the ones that really were bad (such as Parker climbing down that house in the pilot movie). However, there were some good ones, such as in the pilot where Spider-Man leaps onto the ceiling to fight those warriors, or where he scares off a lion in one episode. I also liked the fight he had with those two thugs in "The Deadly Dust" where he fought them on the set of a Western.

Say what you will about the flaws of the TV series, but those wall-crawling scenes still thrill me in a way that the CG-laden Raimi movies don't.

There's just something intrinsically exciting about a real stuntman hanging dozens--or hundreds--of feet above the ground on the side of a real building.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxKMC_wrPdA

I mean, he's climbing on the friggin' EMPIRE STATE BUILDING! A real guy!! In a Spider-Man suit!!!

As snazzy as today's effects are, on some fundamental level, we know they're fake, be they fully-CG, or a stuntman shot against a greenscreen.

The TV show had a real guy hanging on real buildings, and it works.

Greg, I completely agree with you. I've been thinking and saying it for years.

I'm not the biggest fan of CGI. As you say, on some fundamental level, we know they're fake. I know suspension of disbelief is important, but there's just something better about a man in a costume doing stunts than there is with a CGI Spider-Man.

I feel that way about a lot of things. I'd rather see a werewolf film featuring make-up and special effects (AN AMERICAN WEREWOLF IN LONDON) than a CGI werewolf. I like the 80s series AIRWOLF, about a super helicopter, which used real helicopters and model shots - I suspect a remake would feature CGI helicopters and jets, which wouldn't be the same.

I know the web-slinging shots weren't that impressive in the series, although I understood they were expensive and time-consuming to film. They don't exactly get me excited, but they're still decent shots using a real person, so I prefer those to CGI, too.

I know suspension of disbelief is important, but there's just something better about a man in a costume doing stunts than there is with a CGI Spider-Man.

++++++++++

I've put a lot of thought into this. The inherent problem with Spider-Man in live-action is this:

The comic character's exceptional agility, flexibility, and insect-like movements/poses makes it very hard to get him right.

Make him move too much like he does in the comics, and the audience will instinctively know it's CG, since a real person can't move like that.

On the other hand, use a stuntman almost exclusively, and he won't be able to move or pose quite the way that the "real" Spider-Man does!

The train battle in the second film comes pretty close for me to being a solid Spider-Man action sequence that doesn't look too cartoony (for the most part). Some of the moments are too cartoony, but there are a few moments (bits of 1:25-1:30, 2:05-2:35) that look pretty much spot-on.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z00fTwhmYX0

What you say makes sense, Greg.

It's a little bit similar with the Hulk. I liked Lou Ferrigno's Hulk, the build was certainly there and he looked impressive, but on a 70s TV budget, you just couldn't have him leaping through the air and throwing tanks around. A CGI Hulk can do that, but for someone like me who isn't keen on CGI, well it doesn't entirely feel the same.

Ok as of this morning (my time in my part of the world) I have read EVERY since Spider-Man comic in order from the start up until the issues that are still on the comic book racks including major guest star issues (though not stories where Spider-Man might only appear in 2 panels of a six issue story).

What a journey and what a mixed bag of the good, the bad and the incredibly ugly!

Highlights:

All the Stan Lee issues (I now have my Spider-Man Omnibus signed by the man himself when he finally came to Australia this year) and pretty much all issues until about the mid 70s when things seemed to become I suppose less exciting to me.

The Ron Frenz issues

I've fallen in love with Sal Busema's artwork on that massive run he did which made some very ordinary stories at least pretty to look at!

The JR JR issues (later ones) feature some of the best art I've ever seen.

Really enjoyed our host's run, even more after the very ordinary Clone Saga and aftermath stories.

Brand New Day was quite good and a breath of fresh air at first espcially as the mid 2000 stories around Civil War were very dreary (and boring)

I won't really go into the lowlights but I'd honestly say I at least 'liked' or 'loved' about half the run and 'disliked' or hated the other half.

So I've done Fantastic Four and Spider-Man: I may attempt X-Men next though up to a point this time as opposed to the whole thing. Otherwise I'll be reaching retirement age by the time I'm done with it!

I suppose this thread is as good as any to mention I caught Spider-Man: Turn Off the Dark on Broadway this afternoon, as a birthday present from my wife, to go along with our NYC day trip.

Surely the most bizarro Spider-Man interpretation yet... not great, not convinced it's even very good, but the stunts & aerial work were certainly a rush and well done.  But good grief, so many liberties were taken (the Green Iguoblin being one of them... and honestly, Kraven the Hunter was created in a lab???), and the tone and humor were all over the map, that it almost makes the Raimi films look overwhelming faithful by default!

The two leads (Peter & MJ) were competant & charming, but the songbook was mostly a snoozer and the dialogue was painfully mediocre... not an ounce of the 'ol Stan Lee wit, pep & pizzaz to help keep things lively.  Really too bad, 'cause the spectacle of it all was something to behold, and helps speak, in a way, to Greg Kirkman's comments above about real stuntmen doing the Spidey handiwork.