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Lars Sandmark Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 05 October 2007 Location: Canada Posts: 3144
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Posted: 08 July 2012 at 9:02am | IP Logged | 1
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I think that having SuperHeroes wear street clothes to make them more realistic is outright stupid. It's silly to imply that a character needs to dress realistically while they are flying through the air and battling aliens.
SuperHeroes wear SuperHero clothes in comicbooks.
If an artist today who is lucky enough to be hired to draw, say, SUPERMAN, why wouldn't he want to draw the character in the Superman costume. Baffles me.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133511
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Posted: 08 July 2012 at 9:06am | IP Logged | 2
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Incorporating "off the shelf" items to a costume often works great and helps to communicate character. And for some characters, complete street clothes is part of the statement of the who this person is and the choices they make.•• Have you forgotten that Peter Parker made his Spider-Man costume from "off the shelf" items? Still came out looking like a superhero, tho. The real problem with the "street" approach is what it represents: the great EMBARRASSMENT of the people working on the characters to be seen, well, working on the characters. "Ugh! Superheroes! So beneath me! sigh Woe is me! Woe is me! Cash this check, please."
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133511
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Posted: 08 July 2012 at 9:11am | IP Logged | 3
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I think that having SuperHeroes wear street clothes to make them more realistic is outright stupid. It's silly to imply that a character needs to dress realistically while they are flying through the air and battling aliens.SuperHeroes wear SuperHero clothes in comicbooks. If an artist today who is lucky enough to be hired to draw, say, SUPERMAN, why wouldn't he want to draw the character in the Superman costume. Baffles me. •• It's an outgrowth, I suspect, of the same kind of thinking that puzzled me so when I joined the Industry, back in the middle Seventies. So many people who, as I have mentioned before, seemed to be saying "Remember all that great stuff that Stan and Jack and Steve used to do? Let's NOT do that!" Back then, this kind of thinking led to "darker" and more "relevant" STORIES, with the characters remaining pretty much recognizable, visually. But the Day of the Rock Star was fast approaching, for artists, and soon the long protected visuals would begin to reflect the whim of whoever happened to be drawing the book that month. Say ... I haven't read the indicia on a Marvel or DC comic in a long time. Back in the day, it used to say the character "and the distinctive likeness thereof" was copyrighted and, in some instances, trademarked. Does that phrase still appear? Seems like it would be VERY hard to make a case for "distinctive likenesses" these days!
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Bill Collins Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 May 2005 Location: England Posts: 11309
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Posted: 08 July 2012 at 9:50am | IP Logged | 4
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David Plunkert said the current Superman costume is only recognisable from the waist up.The same applies to the current movie version,try blanking it out from the chest symbol,what lies below could be a good water based character costume(Namor`s 70`s alternative maybe?),but it ain`t Superman.
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Michael Todd Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 07 September 2009 Location: United States Posts: 4115
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Posted: 08 July 2012 at 9:56am | IP Logged | 5
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I didn't care for the idea of Super-Heroes fighting in plain clothes then.... And I like it even less now, stick to what has been working for decades.
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Petter Myhr Ness Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 02 July 2009 Location: Norway Posts: 3926
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Posted: 08 July 2012 at 1:26pm | IP Logged | 6
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Looking at a lot of the new costume designs, the emphathis seem to be on adding as much detail as possible on the costume. A trend the new Superman costume falls victim of. The knee pads, the multiple layers on the boots, the many seems and etc. In my eyes, these details are just noise - with no pratical use to speak of.
Another victim here is Hawkman - who I've always thought was one of the coolest-looking characters out there. As witnessed by Joe Kubert:
Clean, simple lines and clear colour nuances - and those awesome wings and the headgear.
And here's his New 52 counterpart:
He's wearing more gold/metal than cloth. Must be heavy to walk around in all that.
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David Ferguson Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 March 2007 Location: Ireland Posts: 6782
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Posted: 08 July 2012 at 1:46pm | IP Logged | 7
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I don't see an X even after you guys say it.•• Do you see the arrow in the FedEx logo? ** I never noticed that arrow before. Only noticed it this time because of the Gravity discussion.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133511
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Posted: 08 July 2012 at 2:23pm | IP Logged | 8
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I didn't care for the idea of Super-Heroes fighting in plain clothes then....•• For any who might not be aware, the X-Men were in civvies in that issue of MARVEL TEAM-UP because they were, at that time, wearing their "school uniforms" in their own title, which was in reprint limbo, but this story took place in "present day". So civvies, in order to avoid "confusing the readers". And if that seems unlikely to you, when Chris and I were doing X-MEN we received more than one letter from fans who thought we should do a book MARVEL TALES style book for the X-Men. That was Spider-Man's reprint title, you may recall, which ran concurrent with his new titles. The people writing did not realize the material in MARVEL TALES was reprints!
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133511
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Posted: 08 July 2012 at 2:30pm | IP Logged | 9
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And here's [Hawkman's] New 52 counterpart:•• A classic example of UNDERthinking the character. When I was doing WONDER WOMAN, Sergio Aragones did a satirical one-shot, "destroying" the DCU. I was asked to ink the WW pages, and was delighted to do so for two reasons. One, INKING SERGIO! And second, it meant I got a SERGIO page as my share as inker! The page I got back happened to be the last of the collaboration, and on it Hawkman arrives on Paradise Island. Sergio, of course, drew the character in his own style, but other than that drew him ACCURATELY. And as I inked the figure, I kept thinking This is a FLYING character?? As you may recall from that vintage, he was all strap and pouches and flanges -- tho even that horror was a distinct improvement over a previous version that appeared to have to tops off two grand pianos strapped to his back. Important lesson in costume design: THINK ABOUT WHAT THE CHARACTER DOES. In comics, the characters don't trip over their capes, unless the writer is being EVER so CLEVER, but their costumes should not look immediately awkward (even if it's on a subliminal level). Typical example, not a good idea to give buccaneer boots to a speedster!
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Andy Ihnatko Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 03 May 2004 Location: United States Posts: 169
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Posted: 08 July 2012 at 2:43pm | IP Logged | 10
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John Byrne wrote:
The real problem with the "street" approach is what it represents: the great EMBARRASSMENT of the people working on the characters to be seen, well, working on the characters. "Ugh! Superheroes! So beneath me! sigh Woe is me! Woe is me! Cash this check, please." |
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That's a pretty broad statement. Isn't it simply more appropriate for John Constantine (for example) to dress like Lieutenant Columbo than Merlin? And does it always make sense for a public hero (like Reed Richards) to stop to change from street clothes into a costume while lives are at stake? And the outfits that She-Hulk wears are more or less conventional fitness togs, going all the way back to the 80's. With a signature color scheme, sure. But not always, and not consistently. Where is the line drawn? A superhero costume isn't the appropriate choice for every character. It isn't even the appropriate choice for every character in every situation. I don't think it's arrogance on the part of the creator. It simply reflects a broadening in the palette of choices available to writers and artists.
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Michael Todd Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 07 September 2009 Location: United States Posts: 4115
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Posted: 08 July 2012 at 2:56pm | IP Logged | 11
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QUOTE:
the X-Men were in civvies in that issue of MARVEL TEAM-UP because they were, at that time, wearing their "school uniforms" in their own title, which was in reprint limbo |
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JB, was it just a mix up due to the X-Men's reprint status that had them in their school uniforms in this 1974 issue of Captain America?
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Stephen Churay Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 March 2009 Location: United States Posts: 8369
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Posted: 08 July 2012 at 3:25pm | IP Logged | 12
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There is a part of me that thinks, when it came to the Nu52 costume designs, if they had given us one crumb of familiarity with Superman, would we have been more likely to accept the rest, even begrudgingly.
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