already came out back in 2008

I wonder what Shooter would have said if a writer brought these story lines to him.  I'll bet it would have been something along the lines of.."Don't bring me this derivative bullshit!  Get off your ass and write someting!  Create someting!"

I know Shooter was a handful, but at least he tried to do what was best for the characters and he wouldn't put up with creatve laziness.

I tend to agree, Joe. Mantlo's "smart Hulk" run got the snowball rolling, and the character has never really recovered.

JB's all-too-brief run was a bright spot during those years, and, had it continued, he would have brought the character back to basics by emphasizing the Jekyll-Hyde concept.

I will say that the first few years ofPeter David's run provided some interesting stories and ideas, but the psychobabble quickly took over. I'd say the true shark-jump for the Hulk was introduction of the "merged"/"Professor" version.

Since then, we've seen a Hulk for every color and mood. YAWN. I don't care anymore.

There have been several schools of thought on the mechanics of the Hulk's persona.

* The Hulk is Banner himself, albeit "drunk"--a twisted version of Banner who is fueled by rage. The Hulk is Banner, but a Banner with distorted brain physiology which warps his personality and intellect to the extent that he behaves and thinks of himself as another person.

* The gamma rays affected Banner in such a way as to create a mutant outgrowth of his normal human anger, a separate entity that shares his body, but has its own distinct memories and personality (and yet is still connected to Banner's own memories and emotions). The Hulk is Banner's dark side made flesh. (This is my preferred version.)

* Banner suffers from MPD, and each incarnation of the Hulk is a separate physical manifestation of that affliction.

And, of course, there have been the versions of the character where Banner is in full control--it's basically Banner-as-superhero, with him retaining his normal intelligence and personality.

The early Lee-Kirby version of the above was more of an "angry Banner"--Banner retained his intellect and memory, but was much more cruel and brutal. The tension was still there, unlike in stories where Banner is fully in control.

There's also the TV show Hulk, which was specifically said to be a regressed incarnation of Banner. That is, Banner's intelligence drops, and his primitive emotions take over. The Hulk is like a Neanderthal version of Banner himself, and not any sort of separate persona. The Hulk still dimly possesses Banner's memories and motivations, almost as if he's a brain-damaged version of Banner.

Even the cause of the transformation itself has gone through changes. All of these ideas are valid and interesting in their own ways, and that's part of the problem. It's hard to choose one to stick with!

* Sunrise/sunset. Interesting, because Banner has no control over the change whatsoever. A problem, because it limits storytelling possibilities somewhat.

* The gamma ray machine. Interesting, because it's an atomic-age version of Jekyll's formula, but also a problem, since it ties the Hulk to a specific location (or, a least, to the device itself, if not the location).

* Anger! After a finding period for the character, Stan and company finally hit on a trigger mechanism that was not dependent on an external source, which greatly opened up storytelling possibilities, tied in to the notion of the Hulk as Banner's anger made flesh, and built tension into just about any scene featuring Banner. The TV show made great use of this, naturally.

Certainly, the "Hulk smash!" version of the character is the most indelible and well-known. I do think it's a fine line between showing the Hulk as a creature of rage, and making him look like a retard.

For me, the whole point of the character is rage. Anger is not an emotion that lends itself to complex thought. My preferred version of the Hulk sees the world through anger-tinted glasses, since he's a creature created out of Banner's normal anger (amplified x 1,000,000). The Hulk should be angry and irrational, but depicting him as a simpleton is going too far. The Goofy vs. Donald Duck comparison sums it up pretty well. The Hulk should be angry and scary and irrational, not stupid.

It's not hard to see how the dominos were set up over the years. The Hulk went from being a Hyde-like villain at the beginning, to a raging, child-like monster later on. It doesn't take much of a leap to then say that the Hulk is Banner's inner child made flesh (rather than his anger). Indeed, the classic Hulk is very much like an angry child who happens to have a dangerously powerful body.

Mantlo's introduction of the abusive childhood seems very much in-step with the idea of the Hulk as Banner's protective, enraged inner child made flesh.

David took it in the other direction with the MPD angle.

Certainly, there's more to the Hulk than just anger. Many of the best comics and TV episodes have explored the character's inherent loneliness and longing for acceptance, which makes him that much more tragic. The classic "Hulk smash!" version works really well on that level, because Banner can't express his emotions for fear of turning into the Hulk, and the Hulk can't calm down and find peace, because then he'll turn back into Banner and cease to exist.

As for Banner himself, he was clearly conceived in the same vein as the pipe-smoking, 50s-sci-fi movie scientists seeking the betterment of mankind, not unlike Reed Richards.

I really, really don't like the crazy person that Banner's been retconned into. While the Hulk tends to lash out at the right targets, Banner really is the hero of the series. The Hulk's occasional heroism is an outgrowth of Banner's (something the TV show did a lot with).

Depicting the Hulk as purely a superhero or purely a murdering monster simply doesn't work. The character is all about (*ahem*) shades of grey. The duality, the conflict is what makes the character work. The Hulk is boring if he's purely good, and unsympathetic if he's purely evil.

Banner is somewhat blind to the fact that the Hulk has (often unwittingly) done a lot of good over the years, but is also frustrated by the fact that he can't control this great power which has destroyed his life. Banner's plight is tragic, but the Hulk is still a sympthetic monster--we FEEL for this deeply unhappy and angry creature who is trapped in a world he never made.

One of my favorite Hulk stories is TIH # 204, where Banner goes back in time to stop the gamma bomb accident and prevent the Hulk's creation. He succeeds, but at the cost of Rick Jones' life. Banner cannot handle this, and so he goes back again and restores the timeline. He can live with being the Hulk. He can't live with an innocent death on his conscience. THAT's Bruce Banner.

Aside from that 20-year period of the classic, "Hulk smash!", "Don't make me angry..." version, the character has been in such a state of flux that the Hulk's very name could bring to mind 17 different versions for 17 different people.

I'd rather not need a scorecard to understand a character whose appeal should be pretty simple and obvious!

By the way, I ordered this from Amazon a few days ago. Looks like a great read!

http://www.amazon.com/You-Wouldnt-Like-When-Angry/dp/1593936 508/

The unfinished SHE-HULK pilot Bill Bixby appeared in and reveals what sports star played her.

***

Is this true that an unfinished pilot was shot, Mr. Byrne?  You were working for Marvel I would believe at the time, I'm wondering if you happen to see some set pics at the Bullpen?