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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133334
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Posted: 26 June 2012 at 9:47am | IP Logged | 1
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Could you tell us which one was this singel panel you often refer to ?••
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133334
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Posted: 26 June 2012 at 10:11am | IP Logged | 2
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This thread has raised in my mind a sort of thread of its own.I have said many times -- not entirely in jest -- that the continual rise in, and eventual explosion of sales on X-MEN after I left seems to indicate that I was holding Chris back. All that stuff he was doing that I hated, that drove me off the book -- THAT was what the fans wanted. So, what if that scenario had played differently? Just a few years later, Frank Miller would find himself in a similar conflict with the writer on DAREDEVIL, and there it was the writer who left. What if Chris had left X-MEN, and I had stayed? Sales would probably have continued to rise -- that seemed pretty much a function of the marketplace by then -- but would the explosion have come? I boosted sales on FANTASTIC FOUR by about 50% over my run on that title -- but by then the X-MEN sales were more than double that. And a lot of that seemed to be due to Paul Smith -- who, like Dave Cockrum, went along with most of the stuff Chris wanted to do. So, would X-MEN have remained a "cult book" if Chris had left and I had stayed? A much better selling cult book, to be sure, but, compared to Marvel sales in general, still a cult book. And if that had been the case, would we not have seen the mutant madness take over Marvel and fandom? Would we not have seen Wolverine become the great stain he has? Would Marvel -- and therefore the Industry as a whole -- have stayed SANE? One man can make a difference! Dear God! WAS I THAT MAN?!?!?
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Bill Guerra Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 29 March 2012 Location: United States Posts: 1072
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Posted: 26 June 2012 at 10:19am | IP Logged | 3
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What an interesting alternate reality to peer into, JB! Although, I, for one, would have hated to miss out on your FF run.
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Barry Maine Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 06 June 2012 Posts: 152
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Posted: 26 June 2012 at 10:21am | IP Logged | 4
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I think he just would have done it with the X-Men. Do you really want to imagine a world where Dr. Doom was turned into a sympathetic gypsy who had spent time in a prison camp and was really just misunderstood because his country was under the thumb of the European Union, but with the fall of the Soviets, there was an opportunity for his country to be free that Von Doom could let go of his villainy, which was always justified anyway, and could become the hero, perhaps even the teacher he was always meant to be?
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133334
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Posted: 26 June 2012 at 10:27am | IP Logged | 5
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Do you really want to imagine a world where Dr. Doom was turned into a sympathetic gypsy who had spent time in a prison camp and was really just misunderstood because his country was under the thumb of the European Union, but with the fall of the Soviets, there was an opportunity for his country to be free that Von Doom could let go of his villainy, which was always justified anyway, and could become the hero, perhaps even the teacher he was always meant to be?•• The suggestion is not that Chris, instead of me, would have gone to the FF. At that time he had expressed no interest in that title (apart from speculating that Reed Richards was a mutant). It's difficult to imagine, really, WHAT Chris might have done, if he'd been squeezed off X-MEN. Fans have been remarkably intolerant of his work on other titles. DC might have offered him WONDER WOMAN, tho.
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Mark Haslett Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 6430
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Posted: 26 June 2012 at 10:42am | IP Logged | 6
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JB: Would Marvel -- and therefore the Industry as a whole -- have stayed SANE?
One man can make a difference! Dear God! WAS I THAT MAN?!?!?
***
For the sake of DRAMA, I want to say "yes, it's true *choke*!"
But how could that have held back the rise of the direct sales market or the speculators?
I also think your take on Wolverine was just as infectious (so to speak) as Chris'. At any rate, I think we still would have seen a "Grim and Gritty" era. The work of Frank Miller alone through that time seems to practically guarantee it.
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James Woodcock Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 September 2007 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 7789
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Posted: 26 June 2012 at 10:52am | IP Logged | 7
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I remember that period fairly well from a UK perspective which may be slightly skewed. For the UK, the X-Men were stratespheric during your and Chris' run - we got to the Dark Phoenix saga roughly around issue 150 of the USA run, so roughly a year and a half after the USA. I tend to think that it was fall out from dark phoenix that led to the initial boost in sales. it became the story people wouldn't stop talking about. It was Dark Phoenix that made me make the decision to start to buy the USA versions. I picked up the latest and it was Kitty's pirate story. I was peed that you were gone and decided to hunt down the missing issues. For some bizzare reason, a newsaent chain had deemed to buy almost a years worth of old comics at that time so I started a hunt around town to find them - at this point, comic shops were not known to me as we didn't have one in my town. Within a couple of days, I had all your issues and some of the ones after. Speaking personnaly? Dark Phoenix was what started the ball rolling and whoever had stayed would have reaped the benefit of that.
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Bill Collins Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 May 2005 Location: England Posts: 11296
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Posted: 26 June 2012 at 11:34am | IP Logged | 8
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James,are you talking about the black and white reprints in Marvel U.K. titles? I was getting the distributed U.S. versions from the local newsagents from 1977/78 onwards.I remember being mightily pissed off that part 2 of Days Of Future Past was not distributed! I had to get it by mail order at inflated cost! Also for some reason double sized anniversary issues were not distributed(maybe to do with the differing cost and exchange rate conversion?) Didn`t get Avengers #200(Miss Marvel went into labour in #199 what a cliffhanger! But disappointing resolution!) But we got Uncanny X-Men #137...phew!
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Adam Hutchinson Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 December 2005 Location: United States Posts: 4502
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Posted: 26 June 2012 at 11:53am | IP Logged | 9
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Where's there ever any talk of you staying and Chris leaving? Or was it simply you throwing your hands up and heading over to the FF?
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Darren Taylor Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 April 2004 Location: Scotland Posts: 6024
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Posted: 26 June 2012 at 2:29pm | IP Logged | 10
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I don't think you were -that- man John!
I have a feeling that if it hadn't been the X-Men that blew up, it would have been another title, maybe not even a Marvel title.
I do feel that your leaving the X-men gave my Genaration the true FF. I also wonder if Chris would have been the success he was if -not- for the X-Men?
So, I was looking to fight in your corner there John and say, reassuringly, "No, John, no way is this mees your fault!" But I somehow seem to have tacked on "We got years/decades of Claremont because of that decision too!" (Sorry)
-D
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Lars Sandmark Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 05 October 2007 Location: Canada Posts: 3144
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Posted: 26 June 2012 at 2:52pm | IP Logged | 11
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To answer JB's question: YES.
I believe that if you stayed on X-Men and Chris left the book the stories would obviously be nothing like what Chris came out with. For example, you would not have done INFERNO. Domino effect begins.
But most importantly, your staying on as artist would prevent Paul Smith and eventually Jim Lee from gaining the spotlight. (I'm sure they'd reach a certain level of success, but to which degree would depend on what title they would've ended up on if you maintained the artist position on X-Men)
Ripples on a pond, I'd guess a whole lotta stuff would be different today.
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James Woodcock Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 September 2007 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 7789
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Posted: 26 June 2012 at 7:36pm | IP Logged | 12
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Bill - James,are you talking about the black and white reprints in Marvel U.K. titles? ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------- I am indeed. I was reading The X-Men in Rampage but when they printed the Dark Phoenix saga is when I really went nuts- joined the X-Men fan club and went on a back issue hunt. I can't remember the name of the shop but it was a newsagent chain that had about 5 or 6 stores throughout our Town Centre (Huddersfield). I spent a few days going from one to the other as they at the time seemed to have bought about a year's worth of back issues and were releasing them ad hoc. Got both parts of Days of Future Past, X-Men 137 to 143 in fact and a whole bunch of other stuff. It was the start of my biting the bullet and moving from UK reprints to US editions (you know you may be right about 142 - I may have had to get that via the fan club along with the Wolverine mini-series - mini-series were not distributed either). I found a local newsagent that started to import on his own - he wasn't a comic shop but decided to do it as an add on to his normal business. He was good but only got a few copies of each issue. Two instances made me graduate to travelling to Leeds every weekend - The first issue of Dark Knight Returns I saw was a reprint of issue 1along with issue 2 and Chris Claremont and Art Adams were signing issue 1 of Classic X-Men in Manchester. Went to Manchester, went in my first ever comic shop and that was that. Comics from comics shop in Leeds from then on.
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