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Topic: X-Men...IN SPACE!!!!!!! (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Shawn Kane
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Posted: 07 July 2012 at 7:16pm | IP Logged | 1  

Yeah Marvel really followed up on that secondary mutation business didn't they. The lamest was Angel's ability to heal but that era did get rid of his blue skin at least.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 07 July 2012 at 7:28pm | IP Logged | 2  

…the ape-like Beast going feline…

••

Which also raised the question of whether some artists had ever actually seen a cat!

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Lance Hill
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Posted: 07 July 2012 at 7:29pm | IP Logged | 3  

Some sloppy balloon placement on that first Ditko X-Men panel. Or maybe they thought Marvel Girl looked off model and decided to cover her?
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Lars Sandmark
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Posted: 07 July 2012 at 7:45pm | IP Logged | 4  


I'm surprised and glad that no one really played up Beast's fast healing ability.
(In Amazing Adventures after Hank takes the serum that turns him gray and furry he's seen getting shot and healing almost instantly. And this was before Wolverine could heal so fast, could you imagine if Hank's healing factor matched pace with how Wolverine's grew to ridiculous proportion?)

I can't understand how Morrison or whoever could see Beast as cat-like rather than ape-like.

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John Byrne
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Posted: 07 July 2012 at 7:49pm | IP Logged | 5  

Some sloppy balloon placement on that first Ditko X-Men panel. Or maybe they thought Marvel Girl looked off model and decided to cover her?

••

"Balloon placement" is an art form in itself, and one that was a long time in evolving.

From X-MEN 1:

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John Byrne
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Posted: 07 July 2012 at 7:51pm | IP Logged | 6  

I can't understand how Morrison or whoever could see Beast as cat-like rather than ape-like.

••

One of the most appalling scenes I ever recall seeing in a comicbook came when the Beast complained that his new "cat-like" hands meant he could no longer play the guitar, and Jean said she thought he looked BETTER in his new form.

Excellent empathy there, mind-reader girl! We'll get you a job in a burn ward. You can dismiss the anguish of children who've had their fingers burned off.

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Mike Norris
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Posted: 07 July 2012 at 9:12pm | IP Logged | 7  

Seems like a lot of current artist don't recall the Beast is cat-like, I've run across the ape-like Beast in a few recent issues. 
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Larry Morris
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Posted: 07 July 2012 at 10:30pm | IP Logged | 8  

JB, I think the scene you referred to might have been the first issue of the Morrison run.  There had been an unexplained mutant population explosion. Now there were millions of them.  His first arc had 2 giant sentinels wiped out Genosha.  Killed 16 million mutants  which I believe was reported to be half the mutant population.  

LOL, so many wonderful moments, where do we begin.  Trish Tilby breaking up with Hank over his new look.  Apparently his abnormal looks weren't a problem until he looked like a cat.  Hank telling her that he was gay. 

Xavier's heretofore unmentioned twin sister that he killed in the womb.
No way I can spell the word now.  Mummadari.  Some sort of alien parasite that was your opposite.  Something like that.  She survived somehow and was back for revenge.

When he handled some of the younger mutants.  Sam Guthrie talking about blowing chunks comes to mind.  Maddox's sexual escapades.
That was another issue that left me shaking my head.

The run was 40 issues.  I can come up with individual scenes that I enjoyed or thought were handled well, even with Cyclops.  Sorry, that doesn't even begin to offset the bad stuff.  I'll be honest, though.  Once he did what he did with Cyclops, I could have thought everything else was great and he would have still lost me.

Like it or not, looks like Emma's diamond form is here to stay.  I've seen them use it in 2 different movies.  Back then it was speculated that he gave her that power because he had originally wanted to use Colossus and couldn't because he had just been killed.


Edited by Larry Morris on 07 July 2012 at 10:31pm
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John Byrne
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Posted: 08 July 2012 at 4:10am | IP Logged | 9  

The "secondary mutation" nonsense is basically an institutionalizing of one of the main things that has gone wrong with the X-Men over the years: the core concept has been forgotten.

Stan's idea was that a mutant was someone with AN "extra" power or ability. As with most super-power concepts, this was a bit fuzzy right from the start, since so many powers tend to imply others to make them work. The Angel, for instance, would need some degree of super strength and invulnerability to accomplish his flying stunts. But, as was common and even "traditional", these implied "other powers" were not addressed, and readers in general gave no thought to them. (We didn't ask how the Flash could run so fast without burning his skin off from friction, we just accepted that he could.)

Characters like the Mimic stretched the definition considerably. His "extra power" was that he could have ALL the powers! Jean Grey briefly "shared" Xavier's telepathic powers, but somehow this turned into her being both a telekinetic AND a telepath all the time -- two separate and distinct abilities.

By the time Nightcrawler came along, all bets were off. Here was a character who was a virtual grab-bag of super powers -- and chief among these seemed to be the ability to develop new ones whenever the story demanded it!

So, sure! We're just producing pricey fanzines now, and have been for decades, so why not treat the characters they way experience has shown us the fans would, given the chance? Make Cyclops a jerk. Xavier, too! Make Wolverine Mr. Cool. Have everybody having sex with everyone and everything in sight. Oh, and, sure, "secondary mutations".

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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 08 July 2012 at 5:06am | IP Logged | 10  

I can't understand how Morrison or whoever could see Beast as cat-like rather than ape-like.

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I think that was more about referencing Cocteau's LA BELLE ET LA BĘTE than caring about how the character was viewed. At least he didn't end up looking like Disney's lion-bear-buffalo-wolf-gorilla version. But hey, Disney owns Marvel now. Corporate synergy!
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John Byrne
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Posted: 08 July 2012 at 5:37am | IP Logged | 11  

I can't understand how Morrison or whoever could see Beast as cat-like rather than ape-like.

----

I think that was more about referencing Cocteau's LA BELLE ET LA BĘTE than caring about how the character was viewed.

••

Didn't Morrison say as much?

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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 08 July 2012 at 5:46am | IP Logged | 12  

I seem to recall that he explicitly said so, but I cannot find where he said that.
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