Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login
The John Byrne Forum
Byrne Robotics > The John Byrne Forum << Prev Page of 41 Next >>
Topic: DC to "out" established superhero (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
Author
Message
Robert Cosgrove
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 16 January 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 1710
Posted: 02 June 2012 at 3:58pm | IP Logged | 1  

Maybe the problem is that these super hero books have all gone on too long.  While fans often look back (accurately or not) on the discontinuation of the superheroes and the slew of Western, War, humor etc. books that came to the fore in the late forties and fifties as a bit of a creative drought, relieved only by a few bright spots like EC, the drought allowed for a retooling of the superhero characters for the late fifties early sixties.  The characters got a fresh start, unencumbered--at least at the outset--by the past and by a buying market that obsessed over the past.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Eric Smearman
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 02 September 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 5822
Posted: 02 June 2012 at 4:11pm | IP Logged | 2  

Last month, I bought and enjoyed the first issue of EARTH 2 and it's
sister title WORLD'S FINEST. I very much look forward to the second
issues this week.

In THE GOLDEN AGE, E2 scribe James Robinson wrote Alan Scott
as the heroes' hero; "the big guy". I have a feeling that he'll continue
this with the new Alan Scott.He'll just be gay as well.
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Fred J Chamberlain
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 30 August 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 4035
Posted: 02 June 2012 at 6:35pm | IP Logged | 3  

Facebook is already aflurry with "news"/disinfirmation/misunderstanding about this mainstream character and a major advocacy group on there has linked the following article, complete with Hal pic: http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Hollywood/2012/06/01/DC-makes-G reen-Lantern-Gay
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Adam Hutchinson
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 15 December 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 4502
Posted: 02 June 2012 at 6:44pm | IP Logged | 4  

Exactly Eric. He's said as much in the interviews I've read.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Jeffrey Rice
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 10 September 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 1161
Posted: 02 June 2012 at 10:01pm | IP Logged | 5  

I still get asked why GL was white in the movie. He was a black man in the Justice League cartoons! Oy.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Andrew W. Farago
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 19 July 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 4079
Posted: 02 June 2012 at 10:21pm | IP Logged | 6  

Easy answer for the uninitiated:  There's a whole team of Green Lanterns.  One's black, one's Ryan Reynolds, one's gay, and there have been a whole bunch of them since the 1940s.
Back to Top profile | search | www e-mail
 
John Byrne
Avatar
Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133280
Posted: 03 June 2012 at 3:37am | IP Logged | 7  

…Power Girl and the Huntress still have some awkward ties to those Earth 2 Superman and Batman "duplicates"…

••

Even tho they are "brand new characters".

Once again, DC's idea of housecleaning is sweeping stuff from room to room.

Back to Top profile | search
 
John Byrne
Avatar
Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133280
Posted: 03 June 2012 at 3:46am | IP Logged | 8  

Maybe the problem is that these super hero books have all gone on too long. While fans often look back (accurately or not) on the discontinuation of the superheroes and the slew of Western, War, humor etc. books that came to the fore in the late forties and fifties as a bit of a creative drought, relieved only by a few bright spots like EC, the drought allowed for a retooling of the superhero characters for the late fifties early sixties. The characters got a fresh start, unencumbered--at least at the outset--by the past and by a buying market that obsessed over the past.

••

The "problem" lies in neither the characters nor the amount of time any of them have been published. Mickey Mouse is galloping toward his 100th Anniversary, and do you notice him, or any of the Disney characters, being encumbered like this? Does Dick Tracy require a copious knowledge of his publishing history in order to read the strips?

The problem lies where is ALWAYS lies -- with the fact that fans are running the show now, and despite all protests to the contrary, they cannot behave like real professionals.

Try to imagine that "retooling" of which you speak happening if today's mindset had been extant in the 1950s. That scene of Barry Allen reading a copy of FLASH comics alone would have caused heads to explode -- except, of course, it would never have been printed. Instead, the first appearance of the "Silver Age" Flash would have been a bloated, convoluted attempt to explain "what happened" to Jay Garrick that would have driven away potential new readers long before Barry Allen got introduced. IF Barry Allen got introduced.

Back to Top profile | search
 
John Byrne
Avatar
Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133280
Posted: 03 June 2012 at 4:04am | IP Logged | 9  

Easy answer for the uninitiated: There's a whole team of Green Lanterns. One's black, one's Ryan Reynolds, one's gay, and there have been a whole bunch of them since the 1940s.

••

I'm a ten year old potential new reader, and you just lost me.

Green Lantern is actually a pretty good model for how to introduce a new version of an old character. First, of course, it must be acknowledged by all concerned that these are CHARACTERS, that they are FICTIONAL, and that the only parts of their backstory that are important are those that the writers and editors DECIDE are important. In the case of the Silver Age Green Lantern, that was NONE of the previous material other than the name. New look, new guy in the suit, new origin, the works. NOTHING to tie this character to the "original" Green Lantern -- because in the context of this relaunch there WAS NO "original" Green Lantern.

And what about the Green Lantern Corps? Is that something we want to hit the readers with right out of the gate? Hal Jordan gets his power ring from a dying alien in a uniform. That tells us there's something MORE to this, but virtually nothing about it is addressed in the first story. Abin Sur tells Hal that the power battery is "given only to selected patrolmen in the super-galactic system" and THAT'S IT. It's not until the eighth story, in the first issue of GL's own comic, that the Guardians show up. It's the SIXTH issue, of a BIMONTHLY magazine, before another Green Lantern (other than Abin Sur) shows up.

The story was built slowly and carefully, giving readers time to familiarize themselves with the growing mythology. And at no point was any of that mythology considered carved in stone. When Tomar Re shows up in that 6th issue, he calls himself "Green Lantern", even tho it is HAL who coins the name in the first story. The Guardians, when they first appeared in the first issue, used the term SOLELY to describe the guy to whom Abin Sur gave the power battery -- and they do not at first realize Hal Jordan and GL are the same man!

All of that is contrivance, of course, to allow a retelling of the origin in the first issue -- but there's another vital element that is so often forgotten: EVERY ISSUE IS THE FIRST ISSUE FOR SOMEBODY. The origins were retold often, and characters did not hesitate to launch into expository dialog, often telling each other things they should already know, JUST to make sure the readers were caught up.

Back to Top profile | search
 
Glen Keith
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 04 July 2010
Location: United States
Posts: 851
Posted: 03 June 2012 at 5:41am | IP Logged | 10  

"In the case of the Silver Age Green Lantern, that was NONE of the previous material other than the name. New look, new guy in the suit, new origin, the works. NOTHING to tie this character to the "original" Green Lantern -- because in the context of this relaunch there WAS NO "original" Green Lantern."
============================
I've come to think that that's what the problem has been all along. If DC had updated, or "re-booted" the golden age characters, IE: new origin, new costume, new, or redefined powers, and simply kept the original civilian identities (as they did with the silver age Hawkman), most of the mess that DC's history eventually became could have been avoided. Simply by keeping those names, we probably would never have had the classic, but ultimately destabilizing, "Flash of Two Worlds", and none of this mess would have come to pass.

Even if some later "archaeologist" had come along and felt the need to reconcile the golden age versions with their silver age counterparts, it could possibly have been done as a reveal (The Lantern had given Alan Scott a false history; Al Pratt & Jay Garrick paraded around as superheroes in college until they graduated, became scientists, and, respectively, discovered the ability to shrink or had an accident that re-ignited his speed power).
Back to Top profile | search
 
John Byrne
Avatar
Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133280
Posted: 03 June 2012 at 5:58am | IP Logged | 11  

I've come to think that that's what the problem has been all along. If DC had updated, or "re-booted" the golden age characters, IE: new origin, new costume, new, or redefined powers, and simply kept the original civilian identities (as they did with the silver age Hawkman), most of the mess that DC's history eventually became could have been avoided. Simply by keeping those names, we probably would never have had the classic, but ultimately destabilizing, "Flash of Two Worlds", and none of this mess would have come to pass.

••

It really is "The Flash of Two Worlds" that opens the floodgates.

Back in those days, an occasional "wink" to those parts of the audience that was more in the know than the general crowd was acceptable. Pros and fans alike understood the ground rules, and mostly played along. Those who didn't -- well, their letters went into the nearest trash can, and that was that!

"The Flash of Two Worlds" introduced me to Jay Garrick, and, indeed, to the whole idea of "parallel worlds". It was instantly one of my favorite stories, and remains so (tho I am fully aware of the creakiness that has crept in with the passing of the decades). Thing was, altho I was aware that these characters had been around for a while, the idea of a "publishing history" was completely alien to me. Heck, I didn't even figure out when the books came out, month to month, until YEARS later. So when Jay and his baddies appeared, I did not feel I was "missing" something by not being fully up to speed on the "Golden Age" Flash. In fact, "Golden Age" was not a term I'd even heard, at least not in reference to comics.*

Sadly, what should have been a glorious one-shot became, instead, a focus for obsessive fanboys and archeologist. And the rot set it.

+++++

Even if some later "archaeologist" had come along and felt the need to reconcile the golden age versions with their silver age counterparts, it could possibly have been done as a reveal (The Lantern had given Alan Scott a false history; Al Pratt & Jay Garrick paraded around as superheroes in college until they graduated, became scientists, and, respectively, discovered the ability to shrink or had an accident that re-ignited his speed power).

••

WAY too complicated! How it was done was best. A clean start. No need for readers to have ANY experience of "what had gone before". No need to explain elapsed time. No need to worry about anal-retentive fanboys. Nothing to cause even a moments hesitation for a potential new reader. Just jump in with a whole bunch of new characters and say IT STARTS HERE.

————

* And when I did hear it, I had one of my first twinges of annoyance at the automatic self-deprecation of the industry in which I wished to make my career. Why were those early comics -- most of which were crudely drawn and poorly written -- considered "Golden"? What was WRONG with the current stuff??

Back to Top profile | search
 
Michael Penn
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 12 April 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 12704
Posted: 03 June 2012 at 6:06am | IP Logged | 12  

...the drought allowed for a retooling of the superhero characters for the late fifties early sixties. The characters got a fresh start...

***

I don't think there ever needs to be such a "drought," a stoppage in publication, as long as the maxim JB mentions often is consistently adhered to: every issue is somebody's first. That way, no matter when you begin reading, the characters are perennially "fresh."

Maybe its the writers/artists behind comicbooks that have become "stale"?!

Back to Top profile | search
 

<< Prev Page of 41 Next >>
  Post ReplyPost New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

 Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login