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Nathan Greno
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 9154
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| Posted: 07 May 2012 at 9:57am | IP Logged | 1
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Brian: Sorry, Nathan. I did go overboard. Nothing personal was intended, however what I wrote reads.Joe Hollon on another thread mentions listening for his inner Thumper on the subject of saying something nice. Usually I try to listen to mine. I don't know where he got to this evening. Again, my apologies. --- No worries. We is cool :)
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Peter Martin
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Joined: 17 March 2008
Location: Canada
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| Posted: 07 May 2012 at 10:23am | IP Logged | 2
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Going back to the panel posted from Dark Knight Returns, this has always confused me.
In DKR there is a scene where Batman is in the Batmobile and he has the Mutant leader in his sights, with his finger on the trigger. His internal dialogue explains how he can't think of reason to cross a line he drew 20 years ago. Clearly Batman has explaining how he will not take a life.
He also later on tells the Sons of Batman that guns are a coward's weapon.
But then in the scene posted by Nathan he clearly machine guns someone down.
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Darren De Vouge
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| Posted: 07 May 2012 at 12:43pm | IP Logged | 3
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There's nothing particularly "Green Hornet" about Sandman. Maybe you're thinking of the Crimson Avenger who also evolved from a hat & suit mystery man with a gas gun to a weaponless hero wearing tights
***
Except that he was a green-suited, gas gun wielding outlaw wanted by the police.
The Crimson Avenger's heritage was also Hornet-inspired. The Hornet was a popular character back in the day.
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Ed Love
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| Posted: 07 May 2012 at 1:22pm | IP Logged | 4
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But, those aren't really all that unique similarities. The two are similar in ways they are similar to a dozen other characters that preceded them. Have to remember the tradition that both grew out of, the pulp and serial heroes, most of whom wore suits and a mask of some kind and were wanted by the authorities and some even used knock-out guns like Secret Agent "X" or Doc Savage with his mercy bullets. The defining characteristics that make the Green Hornet different from the rest are not really shared by the Sandman: a powerful car, asian side-kick, identity of newspaper publisher that actually promotes the hunt against his masked identity. And, considering that the Green Hornet was on radio while the Sandman was in comics, who's to say actually what kind of outfit the GH wore. Each listener could envision him as he wished.
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Darren De Vouge
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| Posted: 07 May 2012 at 1:52pm | IP Logged | 5
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who's to say actually what kind of outfit the GH wore. Each listener could envision him as he wished
***
My point exactly. It could have been a green suit, cape and gas mask, just like Wesley Dodds.
I don't think a character has to borrow every aspect of another character,to be considered an imitator. True, Dodds wasn't a newspaper publisher and he didn't have an Japanese/Filipino assistant; but I think the sleep-inducing gas gun was a dead giveaway. Anyway, what does it matter? As you pointed out, many of the early comic book characters were partial or full knock-offs of characters from the pulps and old-time radio. It's just a matter of degree. It just so happens that The Sandman reminds me a whole lot more of the Green Hornet than Doc Savage does.
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Eric Smearman
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| Posted: 07 May 2012 at 2:01pm | IP Logged | 6
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Like the Hornet, the Crimson Avenger was a wealthy, crusading
newspaper publisher (Lee Travis) who had an Asian valet (Wing) who
also functioned as a sidekick to his masked alter ego. The gas-
masked Sandman was wealthy socialite Wesley Dodds who operated
solo as a "mystery man". The Sandman character seems, IMO, to
share more similarities with the Shadow than the Green Hornet.
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Lars Sandmark
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Joined: 05 October 2007
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| Posted: 07 May 2012 at 7:04pm | IP Logged | 7
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I just hope that idiot Grant Morrison never sees this thread!!!
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Larry Morris
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| Posted: 07 May 2012 at 8:21pm | IP Logged | 8
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QUOTE:
| Following on from how Brian describes how Frank Miller made Daredevil seem weak by not lethally stopping the murderous Bullseye - it reminds me of how once The Joker is written to be a mass-murderer (who routinely escapes from custody), then him being permanently stopped makes some sense. |
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Might make more sense that the justice system put him to death. Not Batman, not IMO. It's Batman's job to apprehend him, not execute him. I've never bought that reasoning no matter how many people the Joker killed. Now if he had to kill the Joker to stop immediate loss of life, wouldn't like it but it would change the equation. I'm talking about executing him because he might kill someone in the future. That is for the legal system to decide, not Batman.
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Nathan Greno
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Joined: 20 April 2006
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Posts: 9154
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| Posted: 07 May 2012 at 10:01pm | IP Logged | 9
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Dan: Oh, 1000th post, yay!
---
Congrats!
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Dan Avenell
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| Posted: 08 May 2012 at 2:54am | IP Logged | 10
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Larry, I agree Batman shouldn't kill, like most heroes. But writers have put him and other heroes arguably in that position by writing villains as mass-murderers. Anyway I've started a thread on the subject.
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Brian Hague
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| Posted: 08 May 2012 at 8:23pm | IP Logged | 11
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Michael, Magneto famously sank a submarine killing all hands onboard in X-Men #150, the issue which more or less initiated his portrayal as a concentration camp survivor and would-be-noble Mutant terrorist, back when terrorism seemed so distant, necessary, and even romantic to some... But enough about Next Generation and it's spin-offs...
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John Byrne
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| Posted: 09 May 2012 at 4:47am | IP Logged | 12
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Following on from how Brian describes how Frank Miller made Daredevil seem weak by not lethally stopping the murderous Bullseye - it reminds me of how once The Joker is written to be a mass-murderer (who routinely escapes from custody), then him being permanently stopped makes some sense.++ Might make more sense that the justice system put him to death. Not Batman, not IMO. It's Batman's job to apprehend him, not execute him. I've never bought that reasoning no matter how many people the Joker killed. Now if he had to kill the Joker to stop immediate loss of life, wouldn't like it but it would change the equation. I'm talking about executing him because he might kill someone in the future. That is for the legal system to decide, not Batman. •• Remember, the editorial decision to make the Joker "insane" -- which led to all the excesses of Arkham Asylum stories -- happened precisely so that he could stay alive! Neither Batman nor the State are going to execute an mentally deranged individual. (Gotham is not in Texas, after all. . . )
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Topic Closed)
