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Tom French
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Posted: 27 April 2012 at 3:09pm | IP Logged | 1  

Grant Morrison's Handy Gay Checklist:

__ Wealthy
__ Sexually Deviant
__ Women in Fetish Clothing Fancy You But Don't Interest You
__ You want to hang out with Old Man and Kid

He's right -- Batman is definitely gay.

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John Byrne
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Posted: 27 April 2012 at 3:18pm | IP Logged | 2  

I've been trying to find a quote from Harlan Ellison, unsuccessfully, alas. Pretty sure it was in one of the introductions in one of the DANGEROUS VISIONS collections. He said there that anyone who thought the relationship between Batman and Robin was anything other than an idealized father/son was obviously dealing with their own issues.

It stuck in my mind, all these years, because the same volume contain the Philip Jose Farmer story, "Riders of the Purple Wage", which included a description of a painting in which Batman "surrenders" to his urges and sodomizes Robin,

When I was a kid, Batman was, to me, simply the coolest Dad EVER. He let Dick drive the car!

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Marcio Ferreira
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Posted: 27 April 2012 at 6:14pm | IP Logged | 3  

anyone who thought the relationship between Batman and Robin was anything other than an idealized father/son was obviously dealing with their own issues
++++
I fully agree.
When I brought the matter of Morrison interview, I was frustrated with how the matter was being discussed. Being gay is not in any way a bad thing, but to label Batman gay is just wrong. Now, every policeman is gay? (hunt bad guys) and every bus driver for school kids is gay (works with small kids around him)? every priest is a child abuser? I mean, why people have to make polemic statements? Someone please, stop the world, I want to jump out.
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Wallace Sellars
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Posted: 27 April 2012 at 6:46pm | IP Logged | 4  

[Sorry. I did it again. (Note, I did NOT say, "Oops!")]

Edited by Wallace Sellars on 27 April 2012 at 6:47pm
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Wallace Sellars
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Posted: 27 April 2012 at 6:46pm | IP Logged | 5  

He said there that anyone who thought the relationship between Batman
and Robin was anything other than an idealized father/son was obviously
dealing with their own issues.
AGREED!
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Aaron Smith
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Posted: 27 April 2012 at 7:05pm | IP Logged | 6  

I'm angry. Reading this thread over the past few days, it's occurred to me that there's only one word that really describes the actions of those in power at Marvel and DC and many of those writers who work for them. Thieves! Yes, they've been stealing. They've been stealing something that belongs to children and making it so those kids can no longer enjoy something that generations of kids before them had access  to. Superhero comics were a huge part of my growing up, and I'm sure that applies to most of us here. That simple joy that was part of so many of our childhoods is now out of reach of the kids growing up now and it's a damn shame. When I was growing up, I realize now looking back, comics supplied me with three things I really needed.

First and most obvious: entertainment. To me, nothing was more thrilling than reading JB's FF or Roger Stern's and John Buscema's Avengers or DeFalco's Spider-Man and then a little later JB's Superman and so many other titles that I couldn't wait for the next issue of.

Second: moral and optimistic reinforcement. I'm serious. As a kid who was mostly a loner, picked on frequently, and just couldn't seem to fit in, I drew strength, mentally if not physically, from the inspiration I got from reading about characters who were truly honorable and heroic. I had  a lot in common with Peter Parker and Scott Summers. I tried to be as honest and noble as Captain America. I tried to be as tough as Ben Grimm. That inspiration got me through a lot of rough days.

Third: artistic inspiration. I wanted to draw like JB and later like Kirby and Kubert and others when I found out who they were. I eventually gave up drawing , but the storytelling impulse stayed with me. Now, decades later, I actually get paid to write! That would not have happened without comics making me creative to begin with and then starting the chain reaction that led me to science fiction novels and mythology and so many other interests.

All that because I loved superheroes when I was a kid. All that because of comics.

Flash forward to now and these poor kids can't walk into a store and happen to see comics. They have to actively seek them out at an LCS! And when they do find them, most of them aren't appropriate for them to read, not because they're more maturely written, but because they're trashy garbage that those making them think is "mature" when it's anything but. Nevermind the fact that everything is so convoluted that it's no longer possible to just pick up an issue and read it!   

Sorry about the rant, but this thread's subject had me worked up enough and that Grant Morrison interview (and the Morrison interview someone posted last week in another thread) just made me boil over.

I'm tired of writers needing to analyze, overexplain, overcomplicate the genre of superheroes. It should be about wonder, about heroism, and about fun. That's all we need. JB knows that. Stan Lee and Jack Kirby knew that. What's so hard to understand? Why do they have to take it away from the kids?

So we now have an industry where Grant Morrison has to make comments like the ones in those articles and Kevin Smith has Batman wet his pants and nobody can just pick up a comic book off the rack because the cover looks good and just read it and have a good time without either being shocked by the contents or having to do research to figure out what's going on in the story! Great job, guys! You've stolen something from a generation of kids.

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Stephen Churay
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Posted: 27 April 2012 at 10:50pm | IP Logged | 7  

I would like to see the Big 2 each put creators like JB and Tom
DeFalco in charge of a separate line of true all ages books that don't
talk down to the readers and are set in their own continuity.

====

I suggested the same thing about a year ago in a previous thread.
However, I have to agree with the response I got. It was something
akin to, why have a separate line when a line already exists and
writers and artists should just tell better stories. I do think that the
current generation should try a reach out to some of the veterans to
learn how to do an all ages book. At this point I think it's almost a lost
skill.
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Neil Brauer
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Posted: 27 April 2012 at 11:07pm | IP Logged | 8  

Flash forward to now and these poor kids can't walk into a store and happen to see comics. They have to actively seek them out at an LCS! And when they do find them, most of them aren't appropriate for them to read, not because they're more maturely written, but because they're trashy garbage that those making them think is "mature" when it's anything but.

.............................................

I have written this before, but it's so true--I have often thought what it would have been like as a kid without comics.  They were a huge part of my life growing up.  I grew up in a very small town, the closest comic shop was 60 miles away.  I have thought of a kid similar to myself, an only child, with no access to comics, and I felt sympathy for him.  Kids in small towns need escapism too, maybe even more so.

I also spent untold hours, and that's no exaggeration, trying to mimic JB's art.  I didn't end up writing or drawing for a living, but the creativity that it sparked has aided me in life many, many times over the years.  I agree with you Aaron, the kids are getting screwed, and it's a shame.  It really is sad.



Edited by Neil Brauer on 28 April 2012 at 12:15pm
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Brandon Frye
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Posted: 28 April 2012 at 9:39am | IP Logged | 9  

"Flash forward to now and these poor kids can't walk into a store and happen to see comics. They have to actively seek them out at an LCS!"

The first comic I bought for myself was one that just happen to catch my eye on the magazine rack in a local convenience store. I went in there to buy a drink and a comic book was probably the furthest thing from my mind. The comic cover caught my eye and interest enough to buy it. After that I bought the next issue that came out, and then the next..

If the LCS owners had had their way at the time, there would have been no comics in that store. I wouldn't have made that first impulse purchase and may not have bought the hundreds of comics I bought in the years that followed. Many of those comics were back issues bought at comic shops.

I think there is an important moral to that story but alas too many of the LCS owners will never get it. They are too busy throwing fits at the mere notion of offering comics in any type of outlet outside the DSM. Sadly, these people are the ones the publishers seem to be listening to.

 

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John Byrne
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Posted: 28 April 2012 at 9:51am | IP Logged | 10  

The first comic I bought for myself was one that just happen to catch my eye on the magazine rack in a local convenience store. I went in there to buy a drink and a comic book was probably the furthest thing from my mind. The comic cover caught my eye and interest enough to buy it. After that I bought the next issue that came out, and then the next.

••

More or less the same story here, with the additional "discoveries" that comics came in forms other than the hardcover, black and white "Annuals" where I first saw them, and that there were a LOT of comics!

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Bill Guerra
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Posted: 28 April 2012 at 10:55am | IP Logged | 11  

I think, besides the content of the comics being inappropriate for kids to read, the price of them isn't kid friendly. What kid can pay $3.99 for a single comicbook??

The content and price point are not for kids.

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Kip Lewis
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Posted: 28 April 2012 at 12:03pm | IP Logged | 12  

If everything else changed; content, convient to find, right covers, is
dropping the price even possible?
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