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Stephen Robinson Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 5835
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Posted: 29 March 2012 at 8:12pm | IP Logged | 1
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I have long maintained that "modern technology" has served to make us SLOWER.
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SER: I often make this argument regarding cell phones. Prior to people generally being reachable at all times, if you made an appointment with someone, you stuck to it. It irks me to get the "be there in 5" text messages or the "why don't we try this restaurant instead?" e-mails.
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Carmen Bernardo Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 08 August 2006 Location: United States Posts: 3666
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Posted: 30 March 2012 at 5:00am | IP Logged | 2
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Some very interesting points raised here, and several that more or less remind me of why I'm not a comicbook professional today... I was one of those fans who used to think that it'd be a neat job to have to be drawing the X-Men, Spider-Man, etc for what was (in 1987 $$) about 43 bucks a page. It never occured to me that meeting deadlines were a big factor in the business, even when they had it in writing on a printed page. Then something happened: I grew up. In recent days, I've seen examples of people who didn't become adults somehow making it in the business, and proceeding to botch the job they had landed. Having been on the receiving end of their laziness or stupidity, I can relate a bit to what some readers and the (more professional) editors and managers must've felt about the situation. You don't see too many of these around any more, do you? At a time, I recalled my standard speed being at that inadequate single ppd (page per day) level. I'd be lucky if I could manage two. I can whip out a small sketch in just under a half-hour, but I could never seem to make myself stick to an actual page of sequential panels. Whatever the cause of this was, it's a reason I can accept for why I chose not to go into professional comicbook art. I simply don't know if I could learn to discipline myself to work the long hours needed to complete the two pages of full pencils per day expected of a professional artist. However, being currently unemployed might be worth trying to see if that can be done. I have nothing else to do after filling in job applications, so maybe that "hobby" of mine can be refined?
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133245
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Posted: 30 March 2012 at 5:39am | IP Logged | 3
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Although even in those days, you never got Todd MacFarlane money.•• When royalties arrived, something I noticed immediately was that many artists cut back on their production. They seemed to say "Cool! I can do half as much work, and make the same money!" This is most likely when the seeds of doom were sown. It's not much of a stroll from that kind of thinking, to producing the barest minimum of work and still making enough to get by on. And, of course, once the speculators arrived, and sales went (unrealistically and temporarily) thru the roof, it became possible to do next to nothing and make a fortune.
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Ivan Black Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 09 May 2009 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 762
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Posted: 30 March 2012 at 5:46am | IP Logged | 4
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I don't get it. Why wouldn't they want to do the same amount of work as before, keeping their readers happy, keeping publishers happy, and in the end surely more money as well than if they cut back on work?
Edited by Ivan Black on 30 March 2012 at 5:50am
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133245
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Posted: 30 March 2012 at 5:56am | IP Logged | 5
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I don't get it. Why wouldn't they want to do the same amount of work as before, keeping their readers happy, keeping publishers happy, and in the end surely more money as well than if they cut back on work?•• Again, remember there are a lot of artists -- more and more all the time, it seems -- who absolutely refuse to think of this as a JOB. Hell, for a lot of them, these days, it's only something they do ON THE SIDE. These bungee artists (and writers) who jump in, screw around for a while, and then go back to their day jobs. "Well, that series I've been working on is late because I have IMPORTANT stuff to do, designing sets for TV shows, and like that." To quote Roger Stern again, he has often said our "generation" was lucky, because we got into comics when there was "no" money, so the only real reason for coming here was for the love of it. When the money started to roll in, it was like a reward. Today, it is considered a right -- and, as we see out in the real world, there are few things that can screw up the system faster and more thoroughly than people deciding certain things are "entitlements".
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John Z Cannan Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 November 2011 Location: United States Posts: 181
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Posted: 30 March 2012 at 5:57am | IP Logged | 6
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JB did you ever refuse to work on a book because you weren't given enough time?
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133245
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Posted: 30 March 2012 at 5:59am | IP Logged | 7
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JB did you ever refuse to work on a book because you weren't given enough time?•• Once or twice.
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Neil Brauer Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 10 February 2012 Location: United States Posts: 714
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Posted: 30 March 2012 at 6:45am | IP Logged | 8
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and, as we see out in the real world, there are few things that can screw up the system faster and more thoroughly than people deciding certain things are "entitlements". ...................................................... Agreed. I've seen the same thing occur where I work, and it tends to be the new hires. They will do the absolute least amount of work to get by, which surprises me because I would think you would want to distinguish yourself. I've pulled a few aside and tried to show them they are waisting an opportunity to be successful, but they usually just seem to be happy to do the minimum, and be content with keeping their job, not excelling.
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Paulo Pereira Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 24 April 2006 Posts: 15539
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Posted: 30 March 2012 at 8:08am | IP Logged | 9
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Incredibly, there are some who think that those who demand a monthly schedule be, you know, monthly, are the ones who feel entitled. Here's an analogy made by one such person:
"I want my candy now or I'm going to stomp my feet and scream."
Wow. Really?
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133245
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Posted: 30 March 2012 at 9:13am | IP Logged | 10
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As I keep saying, American comics long ago ceased to be professional publications. Slowly but surely, over the decades since the Direct Sales Market was created, we have whittled and pruned ourselves back and back until all that remains are high priced fanzines. Some, very much in the tradition of yore, work earnestly to be very GOOD fanzines, but scaled against what comics used to be...
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Armindo Macieira Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 October 2006 Location: Portugal Posts: 955
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Posted: 30 March 2012 at 1:05pm | IP Logged | 11
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I can't understand how some of these guys, with outrageous page rates, don't work more to make more money... it's like they have a license to print money!! Why make 2.000 if you can make 10.000 doing the thing you love? It's not exactly a steady job, so it would be advisable to make the most of it while you can! Every hour they spend playing Playstation is like throwing away money through the window... Maybe I'm seeing this in the wrong angle...
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Jozef Brandt Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 03 March 2007 Location: United States Posts: 2669
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Posted: 30 March 2012 at 1:57pm | IP Logged | 12
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What I don't get, is how they can have trouble meeting deadlines when the books seem shorter, there is less original art and more photoshopping/cutting & pasting going on (not to mention outright tracing). It's like just about everyone involved in the process has lowered the bar.
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