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Michael Penn
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 April 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 12760
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| Posted: 02 March 2012 at 5:46am | IP Logged | 1
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A little bit of sex (sexist?) appeal in comicbooks is certainly nothing new...But there's a difference between what's sexy in a classy and classic way and what's hardcore prurience. One might say that a full command of that difference in art and story is, inter alia, what made the old comicbook masters truly masters. On the other hand, is it that hard to achieve? The old and new Hawkwomen above only have subtle distinctions -- but so key!
Those 70s style superhero women are beautiful and buxom and bursting with sexiness. The modern exemplars? Pandering trash. (What a pity too because it looks like some darned fine artistic technique.)
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133512
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| Posted: 02 March 2012 at 5:59am | IP Logged | 2
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The old and new Hawkwomen above only have subtle distinctions -- but so key!•• Which brings to mind something I found particularly revealing (no pun intended) at the time. Years ago, in one of his strips in CBG, Fred Hembeck joked that the only way Hawkman was ever likely to have a successful series was if Hawkgirl started wearing his uniform, ie the bare-chested version. This became something of a standard in fan humor -- and dreams. Years later, SWAMP THING, scripted by Alan Moore, gave us just that, a female Thanagarian in the traditional male version of the uniform -- except the chest straps were adjusted to cover her "naughty bits". Look! We're being Bad Boys!! Only we're not. Also somewhat typically, altho those straps were supposed to be supporting the weight of those typically massive wings, they had no effect whatsoever on the shape of the woman's breasts. They should have been squashed flat, but they were not. Perhaps female Thanagarian law officers are required to get titanium implants?
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Rod Collins
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: Australia
Posts: 936
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| Posted: 02 March 2012 at 6:43am | IP Logged | 3
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JB, One thing you really understand, that a lot of artists don't, is the fact that female breasts actually move and shift depending on what the characters arms and torso are doing. A lot of artists could really benefit from sitting in on a life drawing class with a female model whose breasts are not artificially enhanced.
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Kevin Brown
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 May 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 9003
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| Posted: 02 March 2012 at 6:46am | IP Logged | 4
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Perhaps female Thanagarian law officers are required to get titanium implants? ********************************* Probably Nth metal, this way they stay up and look perkier. Anyway, while I do enjoy the occasional piece of cheesecake (hey, I love Wally Wood's stuff), it's gone overboard the last 3 decades. It seems as if the industry as a whole has been taken over by those 13-year old boys who used to talk about what Mr. Fantastic could really do with the Invisible Girl.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133512
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| Posted: 02 March 2012 at 7:50am | IP Logged | 5
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A lot of artists could really benefit from sitting in on a life drawing class...••• Some years ago a reliable source told me about a Hot Artist who had been persuaded to try a life drawing class -- and had proceeded to draw the model in his usual stlye, with pencil-sharpener feet and bullet boobs.
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Matt Reed
Byrne Robotics Security
Robotmod
Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 36067
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| Posted: 02 March 2012 at 8:26am | IP Logged | 6
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As an aside, I think modern comics out of the big two have lost a sense of scope as well. Used to be that they were a way to explore, a way to see things that lived only in your imagination with stories that felt bigger than life. As a kid, I tried to escape what I thought were mundane adult conversations to live, if only for a time, in the world of comic books. Now? It seems that all the characters do is talk. The action has become secondary to the discussion about the action. How very boring.
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Stephen Churay
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 March 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 8369
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| Posted: 02 March 2012 at 9:03am | IP Logged | 7
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As an aside, I think modern comics out of the big two have lost a
sense of scope as well. Used to be that they were a way to explore,
a way to see things that lived only in your imagination with stories that
felt bigger than life. As a kid, I tried to escape what I thought were
mundane adult conversations to live, if only for a time, in the world of
comic books. Now? It seems that all the characters do is talk. The
action has become secondary to the discussion about the action.
How very boring.
===
I don't think that's an aside Matt. I think it's at the heart of why there
aren't any big stories anymore. Since there usually aren't thought
bubbles for the character to internalize there thoughts, which the
character could actually do while in the middle of an action scene,
they have long discussion scenes where they sort out there troubles.
It's like reading comics about retired superhero support groups.
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Valmor J. Pedretti
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 October 2011
Location: Brazil
Posts: 786
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| Posted: 02 March 2012 at 3:42pm | IP Logged | 8
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Ha, I was drawing this little story I wrote a while ago, and this thread really sucked my will to move on! hehe
Back to square one! :-)
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Ivan Black
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 09 May 2009
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 762
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| Posted: 02 March 2012 at 3:46pm | IP Logged | 9
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While I enjoy well-drawn characters as much as the next person, I do think a certain amount of today's superhero comics look like they belong on the top shelf. The poses, the too scantily clad women with bodies that appear to come from a plastic surgery conveyor belt. Muscles that seem invented, out of proportion or strangely placed. Surface and superficiality over story and content. Luckily some artists remain that seem to have observed actual human anatomy, but I do miss the handicraft of the old days when people were largely drawn to look like people and maintained a certain dignity. I probably sound old-fashioned and conservative saying this but, ah, there it is.
Edited by Ivan Black on 02 March 2012 at 3:47pm
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Martin Redmond
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 June 2006
Posts: 3882
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| Posted: 02 March 2012 at 4:10pm | IP Logged | 10
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Well, I'm all for more diverse types. I'm not against gratuity but it offends me when it's done during a death scene or some tragic moment or idk, like I remember this pic of Supergirl flashing her gstring at her grampa and like seriously? wtf? However, I don't think it's what's driving most women away because lots of women support women with impossible physiques who have offensive attitudes and or degrade women.
Edited by Martin Redmond on 02 March 2012 at 4:25pm
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Ronald Joseph
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 18 April 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 1784
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| Posted: 02 March 2012 at 4:37pm | IP Logged | 11
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Now? It seems that all the characters do is talk. The action has become secondary to the discussion about the action. How very boring.
This seems to go hand-in-hand with the proliferation of reality shows that have seemingly taken over (is there really a difference between any current Big Two team book and an episode of that disgusting Jersey Shore?). Not to mention the remake/reboot obsession that has swept Hollywood.
One would be led to believe that there are no more storytellers, creators, and dreamers out there anymore. Why make up some fantastic tale when we can just film "what's there" or "what's been done before"? Why tread new ground?
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133512
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| Posted: 02 March 2012 at 6:53pm | IP Logged | 12
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I get the impression the talking-heads comics represent the publishers having given up. It's been a long time since a comic book could take us somewhere that movies and TV shows can't. CGI can show us things Jack Kirby could only imagine. But is that really a reason to "go small"?
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