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Kip Lewis
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 March 2011
Posts: 2880
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| Posted: 21 January 2012 at 7:03am | IP Logged | 1
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I think Alpha Flights enduring popularity is because
A) Costumes are perfect. They have stood the test of time. Artists
may play with the design, but the classic costumes always return.
B) the characters are familiar, but unique. Ex. Speedster--familiar;
flier, not runner--unique.
C) like B; they subtly remind us of the original Avengers, yet they
aren't. The team has a hulk, a tech, a myth, a patriot, and a couple
(one romantic, one siblings). But they aren't the original Avengers;
they just tap into that same concept of what makes a good team.
D) the name; doesn't make a lot of sense, but it is unique and for
some reason, solid.
E) Character names, all solid, interesting and again, have stood the test
of time.
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Paulo Pereira
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 24 April 2006
Posts: 15539
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| Posted: 21 January 2012 at 10:28am | IP Logged | 2
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Alpha Flight's the one team (besides the X-Men) that I wouldn't mind seeing Wolverine joining (post JB's run, of course; that was fine as it was). Might have helped the book some, too.
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Paulo Pereira
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 24 April 2006
Posts: 15539
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| Posted: 21 January 2012 at 10:29am | IP Logged | 3
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Dave A. wrote:
| and I think Jay Stephens is awesome. He's a fantastic cartoonist. If you don't know who he is you're missing out, regardless of whether you agree with his Alpha Flight comments or not... |
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It's not a matter of merely disagreeing; it's finding the comments disrespectful and boastful, intentional or not.
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Dave Kopperman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 December 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3347
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| Posted: 21 January 2012 at 10:56am | IP Logged | 4
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My reasons for loving Alpha were that it was very different from anything else on the stands. Quieter, more introspective. Most of the action took place in the middle of nowhere, making the stakes to bystanders minimal, but the stakes for the heroes much higher.
It also looked different, with open space and forests - as close to a classic western as any superhero comic has ever come. It was more serialized internally, less tied in to Marvel continuity, and there was real character growth and change. White, anglo-saxon and even heterosexual men were in the minority on the team, and the views into other cultures and traditions were treated realistically and matter-of-fact, rather than some kind of curiosity.
Money problems were real, and the solutions were never perfect, permanent or effective. Interpersonal conflict was an organic outgrowth of the characters, not tacked on to add flavor.
Tonally, with the longer character arcs and naturalistic dialogue, it shares a lot with the alternative comics of the early 80's, and served as a bridge to those titles for me. In many ways, it's the book that changed me from an young adolescent reader of superhero comics to a fan of the form of comics, and the idea of comics as something that could be enjoy in much subtler and more 'adult' ways - and it did so without the gratuitous violence and sexual boundary pushing of Watchmen and Dark Knight. In a lot of ways, the violence in Alpha Flight has much more consequence than in those books, and certainly more consequence than in any other contemporary title I can think of.
On top of that, it was a book with an almost zen stillness in places, which ran not only counter to the rest of the mainstream titles at that time, but seemingly the rest of American popular culture.
And it hasn't dated as a read! If ever there were a self-contained title/run that can be re-experienced in comics, it's that. It's like the Chronicles of Narnia of superhero comics, minus the Christian allegory (at least not one that I got).
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Dave Kopperman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 December 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3347
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| Posted: 21 January 2012 at 11:10am | IP Logged | 5
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I just realized that I wrote all that without once saying anything about the art, which is a testament to just how good the writing is. Obviously, the art was (using French in honor of the twins) fucking awesome.
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Matthew Wilkie
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 09 March 2011
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1139
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| Posted: 21 January 2012 at 12:05pm | IP Logged | 6
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Dave - Perfectly put. It was the first book that I read with any kind of regularity. The fact that it seemed to sit outside of the main Marvel continuity was key for me.
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William T. Byrd
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 August 2009
Posts: 209
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| Posted: 21 January 2012 at 12:28pm | IP Logged | 7
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JB - Here is my theory on why the Flight is so dear to many a comic fans' hearts.
When Alpha Flight was introduced, it gave a whole generation that hadn't been around for the creation of the Avengers, the X-Men and the Fantastic Four a group of characters and a team that these fans were witnessing grow and evolve from the ground floor, instead of having already been established in series that had been going awhile. From the first appearances in the X-Men to the guest spots in comics like Machine Man, Hulk and Marvel Two-In-One, the desire of this newer generation of fans to see Alpha Flight evolve put them in an almost sacred category separate from the other characters of the Marvel Universe... Or, in other words, the timing was just right.
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Matt Hawes
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 16498
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| Posted: 21 January 2012 at 1:33pm | IP Logged | 8
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William wrote:
| ...JB - Here is my theory on why the Flight is so dear to many a comic fans' hearts... |
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I think it was both because the series was just flat-out fun, and because JB was doing things differently in the series than one expected to see in a mainstream superhero comic of the period. The first year of stories were really more of a bunch of solo adventures, with the team grouping together for the year's end. The second year was more or less duos, with the team once again meeting together at the end of that year's worth of stories to battle the villain(s). Finally, the third year is mostly team battles, with Alpha Flight going up against Omega Flight, right before JB left.
And you had a little person hero who kicked butt, a disabled hero, an important hero dying very unexpectedly, and many other things that kept the fans on edge of their seats.
Sadly, though Bill Mantlo started off fairly strong, he started to get screwy with things: Walter became "Wanda," Puck was no longer a dwarf, but some old guy who was small because his body caged some demon (!!?), the twins were revealed to be elves (!!??), and all sorts of very BAD ideas brought down the comic. And not to slight any of the artists that followed, but most were not too exciting, and the two other big-names artist to follow JB on the series, Mike Mignola and Jim Lee were not then big-names in comics. Nor was either artists' art at the stage then where it would be when they became the fan-faves they would later be. Good art, but both were still developing their signature styles.
It's a shame because had the right mix of artist and writer came along after JB, I think the comic would have remained a top-selling book.
Edited by Matt Hawes on 21 January 2012 at 1:35pm
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Thanos Kollias
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 June 2004
Location: Greece
Posts: 5009
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| Posted: 21 January 2012 at 2:36pm | IP Logged | 9
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I hope I don't derail the topic too much by posting another Ditko image inspired by JB (ROM Annual#4):
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Paulo Pereira
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 24 April 2006
Posts: 15539
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| Posted: 21 January 2012 at 2:41pm | IP Logged | 10
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I like Ditko's Gladiator.
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Brian Rhodes
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3332
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| Posted: 21 January 2012 at 3:10pm | IP Logged | 11
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C) like B; they subtly remind us of the original Avengers, yet they
aren't. The team has a hulk, a tech, a myth, a patriot, and a couple
(one romantic, one siblings). But they aren't the original Avengers;
they just tap into that same concept of what makes a good team.
D) the name; doesn't make a lot of sense, So, it subtly reminds us of the Avengers in yet another way. I know the movie's trailer tries to give it some context, but really, in general, what are they avenging?
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Shawn Kane
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 November 2010
Location: United States
Posts: 3239
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| Posted: 21 January 2012 at 3:32pm | IP Logged | 12
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I agree with Matt but I'd like to add some reasons why no one has ever touched JB's run. One of my biggest problems with the Mantlo run was that he total ruined Box. It's funny I bought pretty much every issue of Alpha Flight until the Dream Queen storyline. Along the way and after, Bill Mantlo destroyed everything that I loved about Alpha Flight. I read a friend's collection while Hudnall was on the book and the less said about that run the better. I came back to Alpha Flight with Nicieza run that returned James McDonald Hudson to the book and I REALLY wanted to like it but I hated the art. Then it became a typical early 90's book by focusing on Wild Child, going completely off the tracks with the Simon Furman and Pat Broderick run. In my opinion, at that point it was SO far away from the Alpha Flight that I loved, I was actually glad it was cancelled. I was actually not buying comics when the next series came out but picked up the first few issues anyway and found no reason to get back into comics. I was excited about the Lobdell series until I read the first issue of that. Omega Flight, the most recent attempt at an Alpha Flight title...Marvel always seems to mishandle them. And don't even get me started on what Bendis was allowed to do to the team
Edited by Shawn Kane on 21 January 2012 at 3:33pm
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Topic Closed)
