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Matt Hawes
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 2004 April 16
Location: United States
Posts: 16505
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| Posted: 2011 December 14 at 12:08pm | IP Logged | 1
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Side-by-side comparison of the Swan-Ordway Superman pictures:
Ordway changed so many things that appear to be arbitrary changes to me. Curt Swan was a fantastic artist and I don't see anything in his pencil version that needed "corrections." In fact, I prefer his bird and face for Superman. Ordway's Superman face looks too excited, for one thing. Swan's is, well... perfect.
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Matt Hawes
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 2004 April 16
Location: United States
Posts: 16505
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| Posted: 2011 December 14 at 12:15pm | IP Logged | 2
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On the subject of "The Tenth Circle," I was VERY disappointed with the inks. I enjoy Jerry Ordway's artwork well enough, but I was wanting to see JOHN BYRNE art.
I, like Jeff Priester, I too was expecting to see a JB/Ordway collaboration that was closer to their "Fantastic Four" run. There, Ordway did a pretty nice job of complimenting JB's pencils without fully redrawing anything, as far as I could tell. Certainly, Ordway was more faithful than he was in the later work.
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Flavio Sapha
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Joined: 2004 April 16
Location: Brazil
Posts: 12912
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| Posted: 2011 December 14 at 12:20pm | IP Logged | 3
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Dispiriting.
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Mark McKay
Byrne Robotics Member
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| Posted: 2011 December 14 at 3:04pm | IP Logged | 4
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An interesting note: I own a Byrne/Ordway page from the FF, and one from the JLA arc. Next to one another, Ordway's inks appear to have changed very little—same line styles, line weights, etc—yet the printed versions seem so different.
I'm guessing there isn't any re-drawing in the FF page, though, since that was fairly early in his career and (mind-reading) maybe he wasn't as confident as when he did the JLA so many years later.
At any rate, count me as one who also felt disappointed in the paring, even though I think there are really good inks here and there in the JLA arc. I felt Ordway was JB's best inker until that point.
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James Woodcock
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Joined: 2007 September 21
Location: United Kingdom
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| Posted: 2011 December 15 at 3:12am | IP Logged | 5
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Wow, that side by side comparison is very enlightening. They aren't even the same picture and the changes really are not required. It's almost like he treated what are full pencils as a breakdown.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
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| Posted: 2011 December 15 at 5:45am | IP Logged | 6
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One of the things that particularly annoys me is when an inker, usually due to simple sloppiness, actually changes the sightline of a character, so s/he ends up looking at something other than what I intended. Ordway has done this in the Swan piece. Even tho the eyes in the pencils are barely more than quick scribbles, Curt was such a master that Superman is clearly looking AT the bird. In Ordway's version, he is looking PAST the bird, or, at best, is for some reason interested in the bird's wings.
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Mark McKay
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| Posted: 2011 December 15 at 9:32am | IP Logged | 7
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Yes, it's really amazing the subtleties of expression on the Swan face, that are completely different in the inked version. There are two different emotions coming from Superman in those two drawings. So much of it in the eyes, but also in the slight difference in the mouth and (our) left side of the face as well.
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Mark McKay
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 2011 December 15 at 9:34am | IP Logged | 8
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JB, did you have any contact with Chris over the course of this project? Did he re-write any scenes from what you had intended, which had been such a sticking point for you on the X-Men?
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
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| Posted: 2011 December 15 at 11:08am | IP Logged | 9
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Yes, it's really amazing the subtleties of expression on the Swan face, that are completely different in the inked version.•• Perhaps the most bizarre example of this is to be found on the cover of the SECRET ORIGINS reprint DC did a while back. Ordway was called in to "touch up" the lines, and in the process redrew most of the faces, including Kirby's Challengers of the Unknown!
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Jeffrey Rice
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| Posted: 2011 December 15 at 2:51pm | IP Logged | 10
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I really was an Ordway fan, but to assume he could "fix" Curt Swan!! And to ruin the wonderfully simple wing feathers and cape lines...
Dead on about the sight line! From the humanity in the most powerful being on Earth, to a goober smiling somewhere ...with a bird.
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Ted Pugliese
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| Posted: 2011 December 15 at 7:17pm | IP Logged | 11
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I am a big fan of Jerry's work, have been since All-Star Squadron, but he is
such an over powering inker that I wonder why he has inked others as
much as he has. His work over Curt Swan, John Byrne, George Perez, and
Dan Jurgens was/is nice, but it is so much more Ordway than the other
great artists/cartoonists that I don't understand why they were paired in
the first place.
Though I must say that I prefer Ordway inking Swan over some of the
other inkers who inked his work.
As for this arc, I would have loved to see Terry ink it, just for shits and
giggles, though I maintain that John Byrne is my all-time favorite John
Byrne inker. Natch!
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Nathan Greno
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| Posted: 2011 December 16 at 12:01am | IP Logged | 12
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Ted: ...though I maintain that John Byrne is my all-time favorite John
Byrne inker. Natch!
---
I agree. When JB inks the end result looks like... JB! I like that best.
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