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Mike Norris Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 4274
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Posted: 22 September 2011 at 12:32am | IP Logged | 1
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I believe that idea was introduced by Chris Claremont. Something about Cap and Wolverine rescuing the child who would become Black Widow back in the 1940s.. This was published in 1990, making the adult Widow 50ish!!!!!????? With the Soviet Union having collapsed 20 years ago most of the Commie villains are gonna have to get long in the tooth to retain their Red credentials.
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Knut Robert Knutsen Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 September 2006 Posts: 7374
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Posted: 22 September 2011 at 12:41am | IP Logged | 2
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I just saw the ending of the new Catwoman#1. Yuck. Pure fanwank. That is NOT in-character behavior for Batman. (I won't explicitly say what's happening. -SPOILERS- , you know. But they just posted the final four pages on Bleeding Cool). Less than a month into the new DCU and they've already screwed up Batman, in somebody else's title. There's no hope for this reboot.
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Dave Phelps Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 4184
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Posted: 22 September 2011 at 2:37am | IP Logged | 3
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Re: Black Widow - I'm pretty sure the notion of her growing up in WW2 was actually introduced in Daredevil (during the "DD/BW" days). Claremont was just following up on the background introduced there. Of course, that was in the 70s... The timeline still would have been pretty tight, though.
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Stephen Robinson Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 5835
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Posted: 22 September 2011 at 3:52am | IP Logged | 4
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Re Catwoman --
Why is that ending less sexy than Batman kissing Talia and then cartimg Ra's off to jail?
And does anything happen im this issue? It's really about a fifth of a story.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133247
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Posted: 22 September 2011 at 5:41am | IP Logged | 5
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With the Soviet Union having collapsed 20 years ago most of the Commie villains are gonna have to get long in the tooth to retain their Red credentials.•• Which was why, when I retold the Hulk's origin during my second brief tenure with the character, I turned "Igor", the Soviet spy, into a Skrull, tying in with LOST GENERATION and other established Marvel lore.
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Mike Norris Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 4274
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Posted: 22 September 2011 at 10:47am | IP Logged | 6
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As I recall the sh*t hit the fan over that. Fans and their need for every single detail to be frozen in amber will always amaze me. File that under conceits that fans and pros misunderstand, I guess.
Edited by Mike Norris on 22 September 2011 at 10:48am
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Mike Farley Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 2701
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Posted: 22 September 2011 at 11:52am | IP Logged | 7
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And yet no-one seems to care that Iron Man's origin is now set in the Middle East instead of Southeast Asia. A lot of it seems to depend on whether or not the writer making the change is "hot" or not.
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David Miller Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Posts: 3083
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Posted: 22 September 2011 at 12:03pm | IP Logged | 8
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I think the best solution to Communist villains is to make them Nazis, which are timeless.
Edited by David Miller on 22 September 2011 at 12:03pm
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Michael Roberts Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 14852
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Posted: 22 September 2011 at 1:16pm | IP Logged | 9
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And yet no-one seems to care that Iron Man's origin is now set in the Middle East instead of Southeast Asia. A lot of it seems to depend on whether or not the writer making the change is "hot" or not.
----
The acceptance of that particular change has nothing to do with whether a writer is hot or not.
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Rick Whiting Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 April 2004 Posts: 2210
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Posted: 22 September 2011 at 1:24pm | IP Logged | 10
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I think the best solution to Communist villains is to make them Nazis, which are timeless
____________________________
In regards to Marvel Communist villains, I rather they be made into agents of either Hydra,AIM,or Ultimatum.
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Matthew Wilkie Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 09 March 2011 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 1139
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Posted: 22 September 2011 at 1:24pm | IP Logged | 11
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The one that has always niggled me is Northstar's sporting prowess. Now I'm working from memory here but I am sure that in his origin tale that was back-up story in the original AF series he was described as already being a very good skier although the manifestation of his power made him unbeatable. Yet, every writer since that has touched on this since has insisted that his skiing abilities were mediocre at best and it was purely down to his power that he became a champion. A little thing, I know, but gets me every time.
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Knut Robert Knutsen Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 September 2006 Posts: 7374
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Posted: 22 September 2011 at 1:29pm | IP Logged | 12
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"I think the best solution to Communist villains is to make them Nazis, which are timeless." But they also lose definition and a sense of what they're about. Like "Demons" or "Monsters" or "Vampires". Before you know it you'll have teen romances filled with sulking, sparkling Nazis. Half the time, when some politician, journalist or opinionmaker (People who SHOULD take the time to know this stuff) brings up Nazis, they get the facts wrong. They have no clue what Nazi ideology was, they just know it was BAD, so they label "BAD" things as Nazi. Communist villains can easily be rewritten as national heroes with legitimate foreign policy conflicts with the US (for writers up to the challenge) or as stooges of Russian/Chinese mobs (for the lazy ones). Some might still be genuinely portrayed as communist (seeking to restore communism or lamenting its demise). There are many ways to update villains (or heroes) if necessary. Some are lazy and some are clever and well thought out, but there is no "one-size-fits-all" solution.
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