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Kip Lewis Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 March 2011 Posts: 2880
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Posted: 20 September 2011 at 7:12am | IP Logged | 1
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@Tony, no, I got what you meant. What I wasn't clear about was that I wonder if the reason people misunderstood the original story as a "one time event" was because the modern view (& what people teach to their daughters) is there is no such thing as a "one time event". And because of that, they misunderstood the story and labeled Hank as a wife-beater. (So, my point was "why did people misunderstand that story, when it was so clear in the story?" Though I suppose the other reason is many Gen Xer hate clean, sane heroes.)
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Aaron Smith Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 06 September 2006 Location: United States Posts: 10461
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Posted: 20 September 2011 at 7:17am | IP Logged | 2
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Though I suppose the other reason is many Gen Xer hate clean, sane heroes.) *** That's something that really annoys me in recent years. There's nothing wrong with flawed heroes or anti-heroes, or maybe even total scumbags who manage to do something heroic now and then, but that's why the potential to create new characters exists. I am very very tired of old heroes, characters that used to be "better than us" having psychoses and problems and dirty secrets and other garbage shovelled onto them. I grew up admiring certain characters because I hoped I could be like them, not because I wanted them to be like (or worse than) me. If this thread is about misunderstandings, I think that trend shows a complete misunderstanding of what the nature of heroic fiction is supposed to be to begin with.
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Antonio Rocha Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 June 2009 Location: Portugal Posts: 133
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Posted: 20 September 2011 at 7:22am | IP Logged | 3
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I completly agree with Aaron's last post. I miss heroes that are heroes.
Edited by Antonio Rocha on 20 September 2011 at 7:23am
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Ed Love Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 05 October 2004 Location: United States Posts: 2712
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Posted: 20 September 2011 at 7:37am | IP Logged | 4
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One that immediately came to mind was making Obsidian gay. The writer and fans use as justification a story that actually addressed his sexuality and the whole point of the story was that he was HETEROSEXUAL and that one shouldn't judge by appearances/stereotypes only.
The other is all those that think Ted Kord/Blue Beetle was a joke character because he was treated as such in a book that was a humor book! And thus COUNTDOWN rescued him as a character (that spends half the book reinforcing the idea that he was a joke of a character and not respected by the rest of the DCU).
Along the same lines is the modern day Plastic Man portrayed as a loon, again because he appeared in the slapstick/surreal stories by Jack Cole. However, if you look at those stories, Plastic Man is the straight man and voice of sanity against the weirdness all around him! The modern Plastic Man basically has the personality of Woozy Winks his sidekick.
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Kevin Hagerman Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 April 2005 Location: United States Posts: 18016
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Posted: 20 September 2011 at 7:39am | IP Logged | 5
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Wolverine's also a good example of "never give the readers what they THINK they want". When I was a Wolverine fan, I thought Uncanny X-Men should basically be Wolverine and his five sidekicks. Then I got that. And it sucked.
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Troy Nunis Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 4598
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Posted: 20 September 2011 at 7:47am | IP Logged | 6
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I agree with much of above (particularly Plastic Man and the Demon, who i planned to mention) - and would add -- The Creeper -- who was a guy who ACTED crazy to unnerve his opponants - not a cliche' split-personality that actually was crazy (or perpetually tripping on drugs as i believe they had it at one sad point)
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Jeremiah Avery Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 December 2008 Location: United States Posts: 2431
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Posted: 20 September 2011 at 7:54am | IP Logged | 7
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I think that Cyclops has been mischaracterized over the years. He's gone from a strong leader that the team followed with confidence to being uptight, stand-offish and a bit of a letch.
While I did like Wolverine when I was a kid, I was a more drawn (no pun intended) to Cyclops - I suppose being a kid with glasses, it was cool to see someone who had to wear glasses have such power and also was respected.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133279
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Posted: 20 September 2011 at 8:31am | IP Logged | 8
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I think that Cyclops has been mischaracterized over the years. He's gone from a strong leader that the team followed with confidence to being uptight, stand-offish and a bit of a letch.•• The downward arc of Cyclops is a near perfect blueprint for what has gone wrong with the characterization of many superheroes. Roger Stern (him again!) used to note that one particular writer could not handle superheroes properly because he, the writer, could not imagine anyone more noble that he was (which was not very). As the audience has shrunk, and the industry has pandered more and more to what used to be the fringe, we have seen the old ideals chipped and even ripped away. Thus, Cyclops, once a strong, serious, deeply conflicted character has become, to quote Joss Whedon's "contribution" to the first X-Movie, "a dick". Tony Stark has become an alcoholic. So has Hal Jordan. Hank Pym has become a wife-beater. The Hulk eats people. Batman is psychotic. Etc, etc. To the unsophisticated masses which seem to make up far too much of the audience these days, this seems "edgy" and "gritty". While all it really is is boring and redundant. And lazy. It's EASY to break the mold. Finding ways to stay inside it, and still be fresh and innovative -- THAT'S the challenge!
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Flavio Sapha Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: Brazil Posts: 12912
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Posted: 20 September 2011 at 8:40am | IP Logged | 9
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What Kevin said.
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Don Zomberg Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 23 November 2005 Posts: 2355
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Posted: 20 September 2011 at 11:11am | IP Logged | 10
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The heroes have become scummy, and the villains (Magneto, Sandman, Venom) became heroic. Can we blame that on George Lucas and ROTJ?
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Jason Larouse Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 10 May 2011 Posts: 515
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Posted: 20 September 2011 at 11:37am | IP Logged | 11
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How many times has Tony Stark gone back to being a drunk since the original arc? I don't think it's happened in at least 20 years.
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Kip Lewis Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 March 2011 Posts: 2880
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Posted: 20 September 2011 at 11:48am | IP Logged | 12
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Tony drinking--excluding the Ultimate stuff,
Wanda used her power to make him drunk in Disassembled.
INVISO TEXT (Click or highlight to reveal):
Tony took a drink in Fear Itself to get Odin's attention. (It somehow was a sacrifice or something.) And he will be dealing with the aftermath in upcoming issues. |
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