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Mark McKay Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 2258
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Posted: 10 September 2011 at 8:11am | IP Logged | 1
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JB wrote:
…JB even removed (Namor's) power of flight early into the run (can't remember why… ••
Just to mess with his head.
I planned to restore his flight power within a fairly short time, but I got punted off the book before I could do it. |
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JB, I had assumed you left the book. Can you tell us the circumstances around your departure, if you want to? I can't imagine that anyone would have thought it was a good move at that time to remove you from the book.
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Robert White Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 4560
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Posted: 10 September 2011 at 9:47am | IP Logged | 2
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I don't think it's the aquatic environment that's the problem, it's the lack of creativity involved most of the time. I could read issue after issue of a Jack Kirby's aquatic adventure, since he brought the same dynamics regardless, but some creators make the sea so dull and lifeless it's hard to get enthralled.
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Kip Lewis Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 March 2011 Posts: 2880
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Posted: 10 September 2011 at 10:59am | IP Logged | 3
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I wonder, Aquaman and Namor come from a time where the great adventures were often seen across the seas. Many of the stories that kids grew up upon included ships, oceans, and so on. But since man went to the moon, space became the real final frontier, and more important to the realm of boys' adventure fiction. (Yes, i know Flash Gordon and others were there before the 60s, but the seas adventures shared the stage with them.)
But since man entered space, you dont see too many great sea stories. Even though there is much potential, the only sea show on TV I remember since the 70s was Seaquest. And many movies are about something in the sea trying to kill us (Jaws) or need rescuing (Free Willy). You dont see too many adventure movies set in the sea.
Maybe the seas have just lost the hold they once had over the imagination.
The second thing i think is the enviromental issues. Even young kids know how badly we have treated our oceans and maybe instinctivelly, especially to the teen/post-teen mind, we realize the king of Atlantis would not be on our side. We've dumped into the ocean far too often.
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Chad Carter Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 June 2005 Posts: 9584
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Posted: 10 September 2011 at 11:27am | IP Logged | 4
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Maybe the seas have just lost the hold they once had over the imagination.
It's more likely, in a society which has lost its ability to discern a well-constructed story from a fictive, hackneyed work, that imagination has lost the hold it once had over people.
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Brian Hague Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 November 2006 Posts: 8515
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Posted: 10 September 2011 at 9:35pm | IP Logged | 5
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Sea-going fare is a bit more expensive to film than the average space-epic these days. While it's true that space-travelling entertainment has largely borrowed the language and story structure that once appeared only in tales of the sea, there are still watery epics being produced and audiences to go see them. The problem is that they cost too much to do realistically. "Master and Commander," "A Perfect Storm," "Poseidon," "Cast Away," "Finding Nemo," "Blue Crush," "Atlantis: The Lost Empire," "Into the Blue," "Voyage of the Dawn Treader," Whatever that thing was with the super-intelligent sharks... Hollywood is still trying to make ocean-going films. Unfortunately, expensive failures like "Waterworld" and "Cutthroat Island" don't help matters when a gee-whiz, space-action flick or fantasy film can be shot on a soundstage in two weeks against a green screen, and become a effects-extravaganza after a mere six months in CGI post-production. You could film a sea epic the same way and throw buckets of water on the cast at script-appropriate moments, but the look just isn't going to be there... Filming at sea is more problematic, to say nothing of the insurance costs these days. Settings are not as crucial to gripping the audience's imagination as storytelling is. Find the right story and the audience will enjoy it whether it is set in space, at sea, or down the street at their local Dairy Queen.
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Dan Avenell Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 06 March 2008 Posts: 1038
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Posted: 11 September 2011 at 5:40am | IP Logged | 6
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Pirates Of the Caribbean hasn't done too badly...
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Joe Hollon Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 08 May 2004 Location: United States Posts: 13697
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Posted: 11 September 2011 at 5:46am | IP Logged | 7
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How about those undersea villains?!?!?
Attuma and Black Manta are the first that come to mind and (IMO) both are visually amazing!
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Joe Hollon Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 08 May 2004 Location: United States Posts: 13697
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Posted: 11 September 2011 at 5:49am | IP Logged | 8
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And here's one from Image Comics' Guardians of the Globe, one of my all-time favorite villain names...OCTOBOSS!
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Kip Lewis Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 March 2011 Posts: 2880
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Posted: 11 September 2011 at 5:58am | IP Logged | 9
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"Master and Commander," "A Perfect Storm," "Poseidon," "Cast Away," "Finding Nemo," "Blue Crush," "Atlantis: The Lost Empire," "Into the Blue," "Voyage of the Dawn Treader," Whatever that thing was with the super-intelligent sharks... -----------------------
True, about the cost and realism, but do keep in mind my discussion was about "boy's adventure" stories, not all stories. "Atlantis: the Lost Empire" fits, but most might fit in other catagories. I agree, the sea is the setting, but i was leaning toward the point that sea used to hold more mystery and grandeur; now space tends to hold that slot.
It's not even limited to film; how many boy's adventure books or (maybe more importantly) video games for boys/men are set at sea compared to the number in space?
Pirates of Caribean does fit boy's adventure fiction, but notice they set it in the past. (I did forget to say this in my original post that sea fiction seems to work better when set in the past when the seas where still the "final frontier"--vast, mysterious and yet untamed. Atlantis, Master and Commander, Pirates, are all set in the past.)
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Wallace Sellars Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 May 2004 Location: United States Posts: 17698
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Posted: 11 September 2011 at 6:31am | IP Logged | 10
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As a kid, I really liked the SUPERFRIENDS version of Black Manta. He has one of the coolest villain voices ever!
Black Manta speaks! -- from the 17-second mark
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Gary Olson Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 11 September 2008 Location: Australia Posts: 382
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Posted: 20 September 2011 at 6:27pm | IP Logged | 11
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JB's Namor was my favourite rendition of the character since the'60s, and since the time JB did it. Byrne got away from the super-hero stuff and treated Namor as a character in an sf novel. I always felt JB was influenced somewhat by the "biographical" material of Tarzan, Doc Savage, and others written by Philip Jose Farmer. Not in the sense of copying anything, but just in the general approach: What the Atlanteans' language might be like, and so forth. Hey, maybe Namor tangled with Bruce Wayne at some time(thanks perhaps to the Marrs twins' machinations) when he was a conglomerate CEO... Oops, wrong thread.
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Tony Midyett Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 January 2010 Location: United States Posts: 2834
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Posted: 20 September 2011 at 11:24pm | IP Logged | 12
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An ocean-based hero has so many possibilities! You can do four or five lost civilizations a year if you want, and get away with it, because hell, we've barely begun to explore the ocean's depths. You can do pirate stories, sea nymph stories, mermaid stories, Neptune/Poseidon stories, eco-terrorism/pollution stories, sea monster stories, sub-marine combat stories....the list is endless!
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