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Dave Phelps Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 4184
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Posted: 28 August 2011 at 6:44am | IP Logged | 1
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"What era is the Superman page from, Dave?" It's from Action Comics #1.
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Kip Lewis Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 March 2011 Posts: 2880
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Posted: 28 August 2011 at 7:43am | IP Logged | 2
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For Clark, we have parents telling him to hide who he truly is, kind of means that they are telling him to not be himself. The best analogy I can compare to this is they way may homosexuals view their background. They are gay, pretending to be straight because of parental clues. That face they protray isn't their real face. Clark pretending to be like everyone else is lying and thus not real. And since they taught him this as a child, then they created the Clark personality as a disguise. I might say that neither Clark nor Kal-el is the real man until there is no disguise and all aspects of the man are out in the open.
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Kip Lewis Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 March 2011 Posts: 2880
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Posted: 28 August 2011 at 8:02am | IP Logged | 3
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Additional thought--part of the problem could be how we view immigrants (or any minority group) now compared to then.When Superman was created, conformity to the traditional American model was a given. My grandparents family gave up their Italian language and many customs (but kept the food). They learned English and gave their children only an American upbringing. But couple of decades ago, we decided conformity to a single American identity was evil and encouraged people to keep their foreign identity while adopting American ways. Now we aren't Americans, we are Italian-English-Native American-Americans. Today, my grandparents might have taught my mother Italian and then me. So, in the 70s and beyond culture, if Superman is supposed to be the model of all that is good, he must embrace his Kryptonian Identity as well as his American one, because that is how we define good. (Plus marketing Superman to foreign markets is probably easier when you emphasis the Kryptonian Immigrant over the American upbringing. And it also makes Superman like mutants. That can sell well to people who feel they must hide themselves from the dominate culture.)
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Petter Myhr Ness Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 02 July 2009 Location: Norway Posts: 3908
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Posted: 28 August 2011 at 11:53am | IP Logged | 4
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Thing is, Kip, that Superman was never intended to be an immigrant in the traditional sense. His Kryptonian heritage was simply a handy way of explaining why he had these amazing powers. He was raised by an American family and given the name Clark Kent, and that's who he is.
On a related note, a pet peeve of mine is when people - whether in comics or real life - refer to Superman as "Kal-El" or, worse, "Kal". A name he grew up without knowing he had!
Exceptions apply for Kryptonian characters, like Supergirl or General Zod.
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Kip Lewis Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 March 2011 Posts: 2880
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Posted: 28 August 2011 at 12:18pm | IP Logged | 5
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Even raising an adoptive foreign born child today is viewed differently today then it was in the 30s, which is my point. Back then it was good to raise your adopted child without any consideration or memory of their heritage; today parents are expected to keep their child's national heritage alive. And if Superman's core is he is a symbol of all that is good, then today he must reflect that. As far as the name; people do go by different names, even to the point of changing it. Kal-el is his name, and someone embracing their culture and even using their birthname is not in and of itself an insult to their adoptive parents and their new name, unless it is done out of anger or vindictiveness. For Clark, he hasn't abandoned his adoptive name, he uses both and each reflects a different aspect of his identity. It's like person who uses one name with childhood friends and another name with work friends. It's not disrespectful, in an of itself.
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Michael Penn Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 April 2006 Location: United States Posts: 12709
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Posted: 28 August 2011 at 12:18pm | IP Logged | 6
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For Clark, we have parents telling him to hide who he truly is, kind of means that they are telling him to not be himself. The best analogy I can compare to this is they way may homosexuals view their background. They are gay, pretending to be straight because of parental clues. That face they protray isn't their real face.
****
Clark grew up with his powers, apparently from infancy. They didn't come upon him as with Marvel's mutants during puberty. Keeping his powers secret would have been how he was raised. And those powers as originally conceived weren't a matter of difference in kind with homo sapiens, just a difference in degree: an earth man jumps, Clark jumps much higher; an earth man runs, Clark runs much faster; etc.
That snapshot of Pa discussing why Clark hides his abilities shouldn't be taken as the actual singular moment when Clark was directed to be untrue to himself; rather, it's a shorthand explanation of Clark's mission and mode for the benefit of the reader. And there's no angst, no agony. Ma and Pa are smiling. Young Clark is smiling. Indeed, Clark throughout his origin is smiling! This is a HAPPY story. Even his grief for his beloved Ma and Pa (not for his unknown biological parents, nota bene) doesn't temper that. The analogy to a homosexual playing straight isn't remotely applicable, in my opinion.
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Kip Lewis Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 March 2011 Posts: 2880
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Posted: 28 August 2011 at 12:33pm | IP Logged | 7
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nd those powers as originally conceived weren't a matter of difference in with homo sapiens, just a difference in degree: an earth man jumps, Clark jumps higher; an earth man runs, Clark runs much faster; etc. ------------------Being bullet-proof is not a difference in degree.
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Michael Penn Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 April 2006 Location: United States Posts: 12709
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Posted: 28 August 2011 at 1:08pm | IP Logged | 8
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In as much as Clark is not homo sapiens he is completely different in kind. What I'm speaking to is appearance. The durability and resistance of his skin is not apparently different in kind.
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Michael Roberts Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 14857
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Posted: 28 August 2011 at 1:38pm | IP Logged | 9
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People confuse heritage and culture. I think people being interested in and learning about their heritage is a good thing. But it's not their culture. If you have to learn about "your culture" from a book or from other people, it's not your culture.This is why I HATED the depictions of Superman who thought of himself as Kal-El and said things like, "Great Rao!" Clark was raised as a Kansas farmboy, albeit one with special abilities, and there is no reason he should think of himself as a Kryptonian.
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Kip Lewis Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 March 2011 Posts: 2880
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Posted: 28 August 2011 at 2:36pm | IP Logged | 10
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Going back to the question: which is real, which is the disguise? Perhaps the best answer is which identity is essential, and which isn't?We have seen mild manner Clark, timid weak Clark, football star Clark, brooding Clark and probably several others. Superman on the other hand has been more consistent. It's not perfectly consistent, but more so than Clark. And, you could go a year without seeing the Clark persona and not feel like you are missing anything. You can't say the opposite. (Superboy and the Legion ran years without showing Clark.) Hmm, you know this was a running theme through Smallville. How does he hold onto the values the Kents taught him and fullfill the mission Jor-el sent him to do? Part of the answer is the human upbringing can't prepare him for everything he must fight. Somethings are beyond human wisdom and experience. On the other hand, the Kents grounded him. He needs to embrace both to be the champion of Earth.
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Friedrich Thorben Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 08 July 2008 Posts: 344
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Posted: 28 August 2011 at 3:39pm | IP Logged | 11
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QUOTE:
Clark was raised as a Kansas farmboy, albeit one with special abilities[...] |
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Was he? Didn't his parents own the general store at some point? I think the Superman, the farm boy connection became just popular with Superman: THe Movie.
QUOTE:
On the matter of who is the "real" person, Superman or Clark, here's what Siegel and Shuster had to say about it, in 1939: |
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The original origins recaps his past but it doesn't really tell us much about the man himself. But the stories that followed it clearly speak for themselves and Siegel's intention, there "Clark Kent" is not real at all. An act. Of course, we don't know how his life was before he donned the cape, but the moment they started to tell these stories they invented Superboy (and that was a Siegel idea that the powers-that-were rejected at first). It wasn't until the Silver Age when there started to be stories that hinted at the possibilities that their might be more truth to Clark Kent than even Superman did realize. Your Clark Kent, however, wasn't an act, he just didn't use his powers in public. He was a young bachelor, tall, handsome and quite successful - which didn't reflect Siegel's idea of Clark Kent basically being a stand-in for his own failure with women and social situations.
Edited by Friedrich Thorben on 28 August 2011 at 3:43pm
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Garry Porter II Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 07 February 2011 Posts: 327
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Posted: 28 August 2011 at 4:57pm | IP Logged | 12
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And, you could go a year without seeing the Clark persona and not feel like you are missing anything. You can't say the opposite. (Superboy and the Legion ran years without showing Clark.)
..
I must admit that the only time i cared about Clark Kent more than Superman, was when JB was working on the comic in the 80's.
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