Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login
The John Byrne Forum
Byrne Robotics > The John Byrne Forum << Prev Page of 10 Next >>
Topic: Grant Morrison on The Death of Comics (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
Author
Message
Dave Phelps
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4184
Posted: 28 August 2011 at 6:44am | IP Logged | 1  

"What era is the Superman page from, Dave?"

It's from Action Comics #1.

Back to Top profile | search
 
Kip Lewis
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 01 March 2011
Posts: 2880
Posted: 28 August 2011 at 7:43am | IP Logged | 2  

For Clark, we have parents telling him to hide who he truly is, kind of
means that they are telling him to not be himself. The best analogy I
can compare to this is they way may homosexuals view their
background. They are gay, pretending to be straight because of
parental clues. That face they protray isn't their real face.

Clark pretending to be like everyone else is lying and thus not real.
And since they taught him this as a child, then they created the Clark
personality as a disguise.

I might say that neither Clark nor Kal-el is the real man until there is
no disguise and all aspects of the man are out in the open.

Back to Top profile | search
 
Kip Lewis
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 01 March 2011
Posts: 2880
Posted: 28 August 2011 at 8:02am | IP Logged | 3  

Additional thought--part of the problem could be how we view
immigrants (or any minority group) now compared to then.

When Superman was created, conformity to the traditional American
model was a given. My grandparents family gave up their Italian
language and many customs (but kept the food). They learned English
and gave their children only an American upbringing.   

But couple of decades ago, we decided conformity to a single
American identity was evil and encouraged people to keep their
foreign identity while adopting American ways. Now we aren't
Americans, we are Italian-English-Native American-Americans. Today,
my grandparents might have taught my mother Italian and then me.

So, in the 70s and beyond culture, if Superman is supposed to be the
model of all that is good, he must embrace his Kryptonian Identity as
well as his American one, because that is how we define good.

(Plus marketing Superman to foreign markets is probably easier when
you emphasis the Kryptonian Immigrant over the American
upbringing. And it also makes Superman like mutants. That can sell
well to people who feel they must hide themselves from the dominate
culture.)

Back to Top profile | search
 
Petter Myhr Ness
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 02 July 2009
Location: Norway
Posts: 3908
Posted: 28 August 2011 at 11:53am | IP Logged | 4  

Thing is, Kip, that Superman was never intended to be an immigrant in the traditional sense. His Kryptonian heritage was simply a handy way of explaining why he had these amazing powers. He was raised by an American family and given the name Clark Kent, and that's who he is.

On a related note, a pet peeve of mine is when people - whether in comics or real life - refer to Superman as "Kal-El" or, worse, "Kal". A name he grew up without knowing he had!

Exceptions apply for Kryptonian characters, like Supergirl or General Zod.

Back to Top profile | search
 
Kip Lewis
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 01 March 2011
Posts: 2880
Posted: 28 August 2011 at 12:18pm | IP Logged | 5  

Even raising an adoptive foreign born child today is viewed differently
today then it was in the 30s, which is my point. Back then it was good
to raise your adopted child without any consideration or memory of
their heritage; today parents are expected to keep their child's
national heritage alive. And if Superman's core is he is a symbol of all
that is good, then today he must reflect that.

As far as the name; people do go by different names, even to the
point of changing it. Kal-el is his name, and someone embracing their
culture and even using their birthname is not in and of itself an insult
to their adoptive parents and their new name, unless it is done out of
anger or vindictiveness. For Clark, he hasn't abandoned his adoptive
name, he uses both and each reflects a different aspect of his identity.
It's like person who uses one name with childhood friends and
another name with work friends. It's not disrespectful, in an of itself.

Back to Top profile | search
 
Michael Penn
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 12 April 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 12709
Posted: 28 August 2011 at 12:18pm | IP Logged | 6  

For Clark, we have parents telling him to hide who he truly is, kind of 
means that they are telling him to not be himself. The best analogy I 
can compare to this is they way may homosexuals view their 
background. They are gay, pretending to be straight because of 
parental clues. That face they protray isn't their real face.

****

Clark grew up with his powers, apparently from infancy. They didn't come upon him as with Marvel's mutants during puberty. Keeping his powers secret would have been how he was raised. And those powers as originally conceived weren't a matter of difference in kind with homo sapiens, just a difference in degree: an earth man jumps, Clark jumps much higher; an earth man runs, Clark runs much faster; etc.

That snapshot of Pa discussing why Clark hides his abilities shouldn't be taken as the actual singular moment when Clark was directed to be untrue to himself; rather, it's a shorthand explanation of Clark's mission and mode for the benefit of the reader. And there's no angst, no agony. Ma and Pa are smiling. Young Clark is smiling. Indeed, Clark throughout his origin is smiling! This is a HAPPY story. Even his grief for his beloved Ma and Pa (not for his unknown biological parents, nota bene) doesn't temper that. The analogy to a homosexual playing straight isn't remotely applicable, in my opinion.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Kip Lewis
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 01 March 2011
Posts: 2880
Posted: 28 August 2011 at 12:33pm | IP Logged | 7  

nd those powers as originally conceived weren't a matter of difference
in with homo sapiens, just a difference in degree: an earth man jumps,
Clark jumps higher; an earth man runs, Clark runs much faster; etc.
------------------

Being bullet-proof is not a difference in degree.

Back to Top profile | search
 
Michael Penn
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 12 April 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 12709
Posted: 28 August 2011 at 1:08pm | IP Logged | 8  

In as much as Clark is not homo sapiens he is completely different in kind. What I'm speaking to is appearance. The durability and resistance of his skin is not apparently different in kind.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Michael Roberts
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 14857
Posted: 28 August 2011 at 1:38pm | IP Logged | 9  

People confuse heritage and culture. I think people being interested in and learning about their heritage is a good thing. But it's not their culture. If you have to learn about "your culture" from a book or from other people, it's not your culture.

This is why I HATED the depictions of Superman who thought of himself as Kal-El and said things like, "Great Rao!" Clark was raised as a Kansas farmboy, albeit one with special abilities, and there is no reason he should think of himself as a Kryptonian.

Back to Top profile | search
 
Kip Lewis
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 01 March 2011
Posts: 2880
Posted: 28 August 2011 at 2:36pm | IP Logged | 10  

Going back to the question: which is real, which is the disguise?
Perhaps the best answer is which identity is essential, and which isn't?

We have seen mild manner Clark, timid weak Clark, football star Clark,
brooding Clark and probably several others. Superman on the other
hand has been more consistent. It's not perfectly consistent, but more
so than Clark.

And, you could go a year without seeing the Clark persona and not
feel like you are missing anything. You can't say the opposite.
(Superboy and the Legion ran years without showing Clark.)


Hmm, you know this was a running theme through Smallville. How
does he hold onto the values the Kents taught him and fullfill the
mission Jor-el sent him to do? Part of the answer is the human
upbringing can't prepare him for everything he must fight.
Somethings are beyond human wisdom and experience. On the other
hand, the Kents grounded him. He needs to embrace both to be the
champion of Earth.

Back to Top profile | search
 
Friedrich Thorben
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 08 July 2008
Posts: 344
Posted: 28 August 2011 at 3:39pm | IP Logged | 11  


 QUOTE:
Clark was raised as a Kansas farmboy, albeit one with special abilities[...]

Was he? Didn't his parents own the general store at some point? I think the Superman, the farm boy connection became just popular with Superman: THe Movie.


 QUOTE:
On the matter of who is the "real" person, Superman or Clark, here's what Siegel and Shuster had to say about it, in 1939:

The original origins recaps his past but it doesn't really tell us much about the man himself. But the stories that followed it clearly speak for themselves and Siegel's intention, there "Clark Kent" is not real at all. An act. Of course, we don't know how his life was before he donned the cape, but the moment they started to tell these stories they invented Superboy (and that was a Siegel idea that the powers-that-were rejected at first).

It wasn't until the Silver Age when there started to be stories that hinted at the possibilities that their might be more truth to Clark Kent than even Superman did realize.

Your Clark Kent, however, wasn't an act, he just didn't use his powers in public. He was a young bachelor, tall, handsome and quite successful - which didn't reflect Siegel's idea of Clark Kent basically being a stand-in for his own failure with women and social situations.



Edited by Friedrich Thorben on 28 August 2011 at 3:43pm

Back to Top profile | search
 
Garry Porter II
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 07 February 2011
Posts: 327
Posted: 28 August 2011 at 4:57pm | IP Logged | 12  

And, you could go a year without seeing the Clark persona and not
feel like you are missing anything. You can't say the opposite.
(Superboy and the Legion ran years without showing Clark.)

..

I must admit that the only time i cared about  Clark Kent  more than Superman, was when JB was working on the comic in the 80's.


Back to Top profile | search
 

<< Prev Page of 10 Next >>
  Post ReplyPost New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

 Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login