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Steve Jamrozik Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 29 December 2005 Location: United States Posts: 80
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Posted: 26 August 2011 at 11:20am | IP Logged | 1
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Do you realize that after the promo sneak peek in X-MEN 94, Marvel made virtually no mention of XHY again until something like the ninth issue? Unbelievable! While there were editorial mistakes aplenty, I felt the subscription ad was a big and effective promotion. When the book began, I was only buying George Perez drawn issues of the Avengers. While I was not reading any fanzines, CSN, or internet sites, I was aware of the book as well as Claremont's return to the X-Men through the subscription ads. The ad art from the first cover was enough to catch my notice, and I started picking up the book when the Fantastic Four guest-starred for the first time with Joe Sinnot inking. In contrast when DC launched Orion by Walt Simonson, I was not aware of it until the third issue was out. Based on what I'm reading here with two series set in the past with different goals and one book being chronically late, I can see where people who were half-reading what little promotional material existed would be confused.
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Friedrich Thorben Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 08 July 2008 Posts: 344
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Posted: 26 August 2011 at 12:10pm | IP Logged | 2
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QUOTE:
I can't not think of Superman as a super-powered... mid-Western American, no matter what his origin. I just don't see him primarily as a super-powered visitor from another planet. He'd have much more in common with Bruce Wayne than J'onn J'onzz. Apart from Clark's super-powers, for me Ma and Pa Kent and the earth almost wholly define who he is, even if his biological parents and birth-planet significantly inform who he is. |
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I like the "stranger in a strange land" thing. It seemed logical to me that a guy like Superman is, at his core, an outsider who can't home again. A little bit exagagrated, considering he spent his whole life on Earth? Perhaps. But then nothing about Superman is normal. Of course, Clark Kent was originally just there so Superman could work at the Daily Star where he could get information where someone needs help. With the explosion of his powers this became quite redundant. I also never liked that Clark Kent was turned into a "hunk", because it always made it seem like: "Already quite awesome as Clark Kent but even more as Superman". And then his parents were alive. He seemed a little bit too lucky the whole post-crisis era.
Edited by Friedrich Thorben on 26 August 2011 at 12:12pm
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Mike Norris Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 4274
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Posted: 26 August 2011 at 12:21pm | IP Logged | 3
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JB cleaned up Superman's history...Morrison's creating a new character. *********************************************************** Is he? I haven't read a lot about his plans, but what I have read seems to indicate that he's using the earliest take on the character as his inspiration. Low power levels. Social crusader. Which is an odd tact to take if one is trying to divorce the chararacter from what Siegel and Shuster came up with. Haven't the courts more or less said they own that stuff?
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Betty Boolean Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 August 2011 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 3
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Posted: 26 August 2011 at 12:32pm | IP Logged | 4
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John Byrne wrote:
Saying that movies are a "better" medium than comics is like saying that Broadway plays are a "better" medium than movies. In other words, it makes no sense. Comics do what comics do, movies do what movies do. Comics fail only if they are expected (as is apparently the case with some writers) to be what they are not |
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I don't have a problem with movie adaptations of comics, but I consider comics the 'superior' medium, by which I suppose I mean my preferred medium.
I think a contribution to the decline of comics as a medium is that creators seem to see comics as a stepping stone to a career in the movies. I recently replied to a post by Warren Ellis at his Whitechaple forum in which he chastised a post from a fan who, upon hearing of the optioning of Nate Simpsons NONPLAYER by warner bros., had the temerity to ask where issue 2 was.
Warren Ellis wrote:
NONPLAYER will take as long as it takes. You are entitled to nothing but choosing whether or not to buy subsequent issues when they are completed to Nate's satisfaction.
I happen to be acquainted with a couple of people on Heyman's team, and have high hopes for this. |
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BettyBoolean wrote:
Another way of looking at it is that if we are expected to finance the story boarding of yet another movie pitch we could at least be extended the courtesy of a publication schedule. |
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At this point Ellis closed the thread, stopped my account and called me a $%£"wit
If creators are happy to option their properties on the strength of one issue they can't be focusing on creating the best comics.
Contempt for the audience cant help either . . . I have been until now a constant reader (cash on the table reader of the physical artifact) of Mr Ellis work, but you know what? i think ill give his avengers run a miss
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133318
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Posted: 26 August 2011 at 12:37pm | IP Logged | 5
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Another way of looking at it is that if we are expected to finance the story boarding of yet another movie pitch we could at least be extended the courtesy of a publication schedule.•• Marry me!!
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Betty Boolean Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 August 2011 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 3
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Posted: 26 August 2011 at 12:45pm | IP Logged | 6
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Aw ... i'm spoken for ;)
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Andrew W. Farago Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 July 2005 Location: United States Posts: 4079
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Posted: 26 August 2011 at 1:30pm | IP Logged | 7
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There will always be some creators who "get it," though, and I think there will always be comics worth reading. Here are some inspirational thoughts from Greg Rucka:
"Pet peeve time: for the contingent out there who sneer at heroes like Superman and Wonder Woman and Captain America, those icons who still, at their core, represent selfless sacrifice for the greater good, and who justify their contempt by saying, oh, it’s so unrealistic, no one would ever be so noble… grow up. Seriously. Cynicism is not maturity, do not mistake the one for the other. If you truly cannot accept a story where someone does the right thing because it’s the right thing to do, that says far more about who you are than these characters."
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Matt Reed Byrne Robotics Security
Robotmod
Joined: 16 April 2004 Posts: 35941
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Posted: 26 August 2011 at 1:31pm | IP Logged | 8
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Mike Benson wrote:
But Hollywood has found a way to expand their audiences. The comics industry has done its damndest to do the exact opposite. |
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Not really. It's much like comics. Domestically, there are fewer people going to the movies but paying more money for those tickets, so the overall box office looks good. Add in 3D ticket prices and that number grows even more. The reality is that films are selling to a smaller and smaller audience. CARS 2 has outgrossed the original CARS, for example, but actually more people saw the original than the sequel. The only thing the industry has figured out is that a certain segment of the population will pay higher ticket prices to see movies in the theatre and of that segment a smaller portion will pony up for 3D tickets.
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Joe S. Walker Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 606
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Posted: 26 August 2011 at 1:34pm | IP Logged | 9
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"At this point Ellis closed the thread, stopped my account and called me a $%£"wit."
Same old bullying arsehole.
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Francesco Vanagolli Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 03 June 2005 Location: Italy Posts: 3130
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Posted: 27 August 2011 at 7:07am | IP Logged | 10
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I consider Morrison a good writer, a smart man, someone who enjoys his job.
There is stuff written by him I really like.
But looking at the shape of current market... well, maybe he is one of the responsibles, isn't he? I mean, does anyone remember stuff like Batman RIP? Does he really believe stories like that can attract new readers?
Most of his run on Batman is such a masturbatory act that... reading those books I felt my fingers sticky to the paper.
Bleah.
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Aaron Smith Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 06 September 2006 Location: United States Posts: 10461
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Posted: 27 August 2011 at 8:10am | IP Logged | 11
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I don't have a problem with movie adaptations of comics, but I consider comics the 'superior' medium, by which I suppose I mean my preferred medium. *** I feel the same way. With the Captain America movie in the theatres right now (and Cap is, if not my absolute favorite, in my top 3 or 4 favorite characters in comics) some people have wondered how I can choose to NOT see the movie. What some people can't seem to grasp is that I don't feel any need to see it since I'll probably be disappointed. As far as I'm concerned, there's no question of which version is more legitimate. The real Captain America is ten feet from where I'm sitting right now, on my bookshelf, in stories by Kirby, Simon, Lee, Gruenwald, Stern, Byrne, Buscema, Colan, and a bunch of others.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133318
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Posted: 27 August 2011 at 9:12am | IP Logged | 12
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Do you realize that after the promo sneak peek in X-MEN 94, Marvel made virtually no mention of XHY again until something like the ninth issue? Unbelievable!++ While there were editorial mistakes aplenty, I felt the subscription ad was a big and effective promotion. •• I'd be interested to see the sales figures you apparently have access to, that allows you to declare that use "effective". The subscription ad use of the cover of the first issue, in any case, did not begin until the publication of the SECOND issue, so in that age when First Issue sales were the Be All and End All of a comic's success, this bit of "promotion" did not turn up until AFTER the first issue had been shipped and sold. Plus, subscriptions did not begin until MONTHS after the coupons were clipped (yeah, right!) and sent in. By running that cover as a subscription ad, Marketing was effectively saying "Here's the new X-MEN book -- oh, too bad! You missed it!"
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