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Craig Robinson
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Posted: 02 August 2011 at 2:56pm | IP Logged | 1  

But somehow I suspect you know that.

***

I really didn't.  I know that the younger character (Patriot or w/e) is a fairly new character, but I thought the elder Bradley came out of the 60s when Stan and Gang were conceiving the fill-in Caps between WWII and the discovery of Steve in Avengers.  I thought Bradley was a Tuskegee Airman approach to the Super Soldier project rather than simply a "Black Captain America." 

Clearly I'll take your word on the issue.  It's getting harder to discern actual characters from the Silver Age from characters that they retro'd into the Silver Age.  Like the Sentry (that one I knew).  I feel rather duped, really.
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Jason Larouse
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Posted: 02 August 2011 at 2:57pm | IP Logged | 2  

Anyone else feel their spider-sense tingling that this news story could, in fact, turn against Marvel in a big way if the general public realizes the new Spider-Man isn't the "real" one and just exists in an alternate reality?

*****

They were already confused when they read that "Spider-Man" had died a few months ago
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Paulo Pereira
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Posted: 02 August 2011 at 2:59pm | IP Logged | 3  

Anyone remember the Indian Spider-Man?

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Robert LaGuardia
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Posted: 02 August 2011 at 3:12pm | IP Logged | 4  

His name isn't Peter Parker so I have no problem with this.
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Andrew W. Farago
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Posted: 02 August 2011 at 3:13pm | IP Logged | 5  

Anyone else feel their spider-sense tingling that this news story could, in fact, turn against Marvel in a big way if the general public realizes the new Spider-Man isn't the "real" one and just exists in an alternate reality?

Not at all.  Anyone who's excited by this news who goes into a comic shop tomorrow will be directed to the right comic, and probably a whole bunch of trade paperbacks leading up to it, and it should be easy enough for a shop owner to explain that Ultimate Spider-Man is its own title, and that it's a different set of characters from the other Spider-Man books.  It's not really that much different than it would have been explaining to people that the Hulk TV show is different than the comic books.
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Corey Morgan
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Posted: 02 August 2011 at 3:22pm | IP Logged | 6  

I thought Bradley was a Tuskegee Airman approach to the Super Soldier project rather than simply a "Black Captain America." 
_____________________________

Well, I guess you could look at Bradley and his men in the same light as the Tuskegee Airmen in that Bradley's team would have been the first black Super Soldiers much like the Tuskegee Airmen were the first African American military aviators in the United States armed forces.   I don't really make the connection though, because Bradley and his team were clearly intended only as test subjects who would be considered expendable and useful only in determining the effects of the serum on human beings.

A more apt comparison would be the Tuskegee Syphilis Experiments where the govt. intentionally injected syphilis into nearly 400 unknowing black subjects, and studied the results over time, much like what happened to Bradley and his teammates.



Edited by Corey Morgan on 02 August 2011 at 3:26pm
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Brad Krawchuk
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Posted: 02 August 2011 at 3:26pm | IP Logged | 7  

Not at all.  Anyone who's excited by this news who goes into a comic shop tomorrow will be directed to the right comic, and probably a whole bunch of trade paperbacks leading up to it, and it should be easy enough for a shop owner to explain that Ultimate Spider-Man is its own title, and that it's a different set of characters from the other Spider-Man books.  

---

Which, being born in 1980 and having no memory of such times personally, still makes me feel rather like there are two separate water fountains being created. 
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Brandon Scott Berthelot
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Posted: 02 August 2011 at 3:52pm | IP Logged | 8  

The government did not infect anyone with Syphilis in the
Tuskegee experiments, it studied men who had previously
contracted the disease. They did hold back the information
that the men were infected and withheld treatment though.
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Robert LaGuardia
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Posted: 02 August 2011 at 3:54pm | IP Logged | 9  

Brad that's a ridiculous exaggeration. How can you even think it's close close enough to make that comment?

No reasonable person will make those complaints. If they did all the retailer has to say is "Ultimate Spider-Man is a very popular book that at times out-sold the"real" Spider-man book."
But like I said, no reasonable person should feel slighted.

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John Byrne
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Posted: 02 August 2011 at 4:06pm | IP Logged | 10  

Anyone who's excited by this news who goes into a comic shop tomorrow will be directed to the right comic, and probably a whole bunch of trade paperbacks leading up to it, and it should be easy enough for a shop owner to explain that Ultimate Spider-Man is its own title, and that it's a different set of characters from the other Spider-Man books. It's not really that much different than it would have been explaining to people that the Hulk TV show is different than the comic books.

••

Dog forbid the store owner should be able to point to the Spider-Man comics and say "There they are" without having to "explain" anything.

This is probably the single thing that is most damaging to American superhero comics in their present form. It is almost impossible to pick up any random issue and start reading. Everything requires "homework".

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Andrew W. Farago
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Posted: 02 August 2011 at 4:45pm | IP Logged | 11  

Anyone who flips through or actually reads the comics will figure out what's what pretty quickly, though.  Having the person who sells the comics there to make some informed recommendations is a plus, isn't it?

If a customer comes in tomorrow and asks for the new comic about the black Spider-Man, the retailer can hand over the latest issue and tell the customer when the next one goes on sale.  Easy.  It doesn't require any more explanation than that, and isn't any more complicated than having the Bruce Timm-inspired Batman Adventures comic on sale in the same place as the Bruce Wayne's-been-replaced-by-somebody-else Batman comic books that were being produced at the same time.


Edited by Andrew W. Farago on 02 August 2011 at 4:46pm
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Brad Krawchuk
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Posted: 02 August 2011 at 5:12pm | IP Logged | 12  

But like I said, no reasonable person should feel slighted.

---

Why not? 

Let's look at Star Trek, a TV series that since its inception in the 1960's has put race and gender equality at the forefront of what humanity can achieve in the future. 

When the original Trek aired, Uhura and Kirk broke barriers by being part of the first interracial kiss on TV. Sulu was one of the first Asian characters not to be played for stereotypical laughs. 

When the Next Generation started, they put a new cast in new roles, they didn't recast old parts with new players. LeVar Burton's Geordi LaForge will thus always be his own Engineering man, not just a recast "black Scotty" in place of James Doohan. Beverly Crusher isn't a female 'Bones' McCoy the way Starbuck became female in the modern Battlestar Galactica. The gender and race roles were expanded even further than the original series, and that continued even further with Ben Sisko in DS9 and Janeway in Voyager. Many prominent roles were given to women and visible minorities, and there was no big USA Today story about it because they didn't do it as a stunt, they did it because that's how they wanted the future to be - equal.

Think of minority or female characters that aren't derivative of a white male counterpart. There aren't nearly as many of them as there are of derivatives. My problem with taking Spider-Man and making him black is, it's not original. I'm a white heterosexual guy. I've got Spider-Man, 3/4 of the FF, the Hulk, Captain America, Thor, Iron Man, Batman, Superman, all the Flashes, Cyclops, Wolverine, Colossus, Iceman, Adam Strange, Hugo Strange, Dr. Strange, Dr. Doom, Dr. Fate, Dr. Octopus, Dr. Light, Lightray, The Ray, Ray Palmer (The Atom), Captain Atom, Booster Gold, Blue Beetle, Green Goblin, Red Ghost, Yellowjacket, Jack of Hearts, Jack o' Lantern, Green Lantern (4/5 Earth ones anyway), and I can't count how many characters that are relatable TO ME. 

Most of the time, what do minorities get? Well, if Ted Kord dies, they can have a Blue Beetle costume. And if Ultimate Spider-Man dies, they can take his duds too. Ray Palmer goes missing? Step on up, Asian replacement! Plus, sometimes we'll let a girl or woman borrow Super, Bat, Spider-, Hawk, or some other word to put in front of their preferred feminine noun. 

Why not just make a new character? With new powers, a new name, a story and history of their own that isn't attached to some white guy legacy? Let's pretend I'm a lesbian. Who do I have to identify with in comics? The Question and Batwoman. Thanks, white hetero men, for the permission to use your identities. What if I'm hispanic? Gee, I get a third (or is it fourth?) hand Blue Beetle suit, a second hand Spider-Man costume, and...?

It just feels wrong to me. Maybe I'm some nutty ultra-Liberal white-guilt kinda guy, but I think it's odd that basically people are applauding Marvel and DC for diversifying their lines by giving table scraps instead of making entire meals fresh from the oven. Am I therefore not a reasonable person because I feel slighted at the double-standard?

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