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Michael Todd Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 07 September 2009 Location: United States Posts: 4115
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Posted: 06 August 2011 at 6:08pm | IP Logged | 1
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I don't want to see Spider-Man or any other white Super-Hero made black, nor would I want to see the Falcon, Luke Cage, the Black Panther or Black Lightning made white.
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Brad Krawchuk Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 June 2006 Location: Canada Posts: 5814
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Posted: 06 August 2011 at 6:31pm | IP Logged | 2
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What I want to see? A new non-white character - heck, even an existing but recent character like Static Shock - given a really big push in toys, cartoons, comics, TV series, and movies.
Plant a few seeds now - entirely new characters that reflect a more diverse society. More women, more visible minorities, more Lesbian/Gay/Bisexual/Transgendered characters, and more international heroes - start inventing. Start putting them into the casts of books and have them make regular appearances in other media.
That's it. Just plant those seeds and give them some water. 15-20 years from now? Then those characters WILL be the big leagues! They'll be the ones with TV series of their own, they'll be anchoring summer blockbusters in the theatre, they'll be spoken of in the general population with the same sense of ubiquitousness as Batman, Superman, Spider-Man, Wolverine, Iron Man, etc.
That's how you effect REAL lasting change. That's how you create a new universe. That's how you really pay tribute to Kirby, Ditko, Lee, Robinson, Kane, Fox, Siegel, Shuster, and all the other pioneers who actually INVENTED something, and didn't just take what someone already did and change it.
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Joe S. Walker Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 608
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Posted: 07 August 2011 at 6:19am | IP Logged | 3
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I've read that Miles Morales is supposed to be aged only 13. If that's right, it's far more of a barrier to the character catching on as a series lead than his ethnicity.
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Kip Lewis Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 March 2011 Posts: 2877
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Posted: 07 August 2011 at 6:54am | IP Logged | 4
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That's it. Just plant those seeds and give them some water. 15-20 years from now? Then those characters WILL be the big leagues! They'll be the ones with TV series of their own, they'll be anchoring summer blockbusters in the theatre, they'll be spoken of in the general population with the same sense of ubiquitousness as Batman, Superman, Spider-Man, Wolverine, Iron Man, etc. That's how you effect REAL lasting change. That's how you create a new universe. That's how you really pay tribute to Kirby, Ditko, Lee, Robinson, Kane, Fox, Siegel, Shuster, and all the other pioneers who actually INVENTED something, and didn't just take what someone already did and change it. ________________________ You mean like Blue Marvel? In the last 30 years, how many new characters have been created? How many have reached major popularity in comics? Outside of comics? And I am not even talking about minority heroes, I mean any truly unique heroes that are created, they aren't lasting. A character has a better chance of succeeding if there is existing familiarity. I don't think the new Blue Beetle would be doing so well if he was the Scarlet Scarab. Marvel has created several new characters for their Initative/Avengers Academy title and there is no buzz about any of them. Periodically we meet new X-men or new Avengers and when the next writer shows up, the new guy is gone. (Seems like Rob Lefeld has created the only one or two characters are both unique and making it really big at Marvel--Deadpool and Cable.) There is only so much room at the top for truly popular characters. Until Spider-man, Batman, and other top players leave, there is no room for too many more new big names. Also when Kirby, Lee, Ditko, and even the DC crew in the silver age created these heroes, they weren't competing against their own companies' material. Daredevil, Spiderman and so on, where born in an empty universe. They didn't compete against an Marvel's existing Superhero universe. Modern day characters are competing not only against the other companies' characters, but against their own companies' long term sucesses. It isn't a fair comparison.
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Paulo Pereira Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 24 April 2006 Posts: 15539
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Posted: 07 August 2011 at 7:59am | IP Logged | 5
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What is "Blue Marvel"?
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Craig Robinson Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 November 2010 Location: United States Posts: 1756
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Posted: 07 August 2011 at 8:10am | IP Logged | 6
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I've read that Miles Morales is supposed to be aged only 13. If that's right, it's far more of a barrier to the character catching on as a series lead than his ethnicity. *** Why would being 13 be a barrier to the character catching on? What fan is already on-board with this change, but suddenly willing to draw the line at age 13? DC's Damian enjoys a great following and I think he is even younger. A 13 year old hero might actually appeal to my 13 year old child (whose interest in comics is waning as it is). Just, you know, hopefully not this particular 13 year old hero....
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Brian Miller Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 July 2004 Location: United States Posts: 31348
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Posted: 07 August 2011 at 8:10am | IP Logged | 7
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Captain Marvel Jr.?
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Kip Lewis Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 March 2011 Posts: 2877
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Posted: 07 August 2011 at 8:23am | IP Logged | 8
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Blue Marvel, had a mini about 2 years ago. He's a Superman style character, with some different powers. He came into existence during the 60s, but when his full-body costume was ripped in battle, and people found out he was Black, it caused problems. So much so, the President asked him to stand down. He did so, until recently. He pops up here and there, but no serious push.And this is part of the problem; in Marvel Thor and Hulk and the top muscle guys. It is hard for another strong man to find a place with equal name recognition.
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Paulo Pereira Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 24 April 2006 Posts: 15539
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Posted: 07 August 2011 at 8:32am | IP Logged | 9
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Thanks, Kip.
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Joe S. Walker Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 608
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Posted: 07 August 2011 at 9:05am | IP Logged | 10
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The operative phrase is "a series lead". Even when superhero comics were mainly read by kids they weren't often about kids.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133740
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Posted: 07 August 2011 at 9:11am | IP Logged | 11
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Even when superhero comics were mainly read by kids they weren't often about kids.•• Depends on how you define "often". Kid partners have played an important part in superhero comics since very close to the beginning. Jules Feiffer, in "The Great Comic Book Heroes" history of the business pointed out that this was largely due to a complete misreading of the audience by the creators of the books -- kids didn't identify with Robin, they identified with Batman! -- but the kids have long been there. Marvel took this to a new level, of course. Stan and his collaborators wisely made many of their characters only slightly older than the readers -- the Human Torch, Spider-Man, the X-Men, the Wasp -- while casting adults as villains. And none of their super-powered young folk were sidekicks in a traditional sense. The Wasp came the closest, but she was also a romantic interest, which altered the mix.
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Joe S. Walker Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 608
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Posted: 07 August 2011 at 9:48am | IP Logged | 12
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True, JB. But I don't think any of the young Marvel heroes were meant to be as young as 13? I'm pretty sure Stan never pinned specific ages on them.
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