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Petter Myhr Ness
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 02 July 2009
Location: Norway
Posts: 3954
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| Posted: 03 August 2011 at 3:09pm | IP Logged | 1
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Reading this Newsarama article on the topic, I was glad I wasn't holding a cup of warm tea in my hands. The hypocricy expressed is staggering, as this selected paragraph shows:
"In reality, a great deal of superheroes... can theoretically be changed to a different race and have their story remain the same. ... The exceptions? Characters who were created with a very specific background such as Black Panther, Storm, the current Black Condor or Sunfire. They were created in such a way that they use their racial identity to help inform their characters. If you change that, they aren’t the same people anymore.
But characters like Superman..., Green Arrow, Ms. Marvel, Iron Man, Batman, even those like Lex Luthor, don’t have a real connection to any particular race."
No real connection, indeed, except for the fact that they were INTENTIONALLY CREATED that way!
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Francesco Vanagolli
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 03 June 2005
Location: Italy
Posts: 3130
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| Posted: 03 August 2011 at 3:16pm | IP Logged | 2
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Paulo Pereira:
QUOTE:
| It was an Italian artist who said that. Maybe Italians aren't too savvy about American comics. |
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This is where I should feel offended, but, reading most of our forums, I think I have to agree...!
On this particular subject: no problem with a black, latino superhero. I simply see a new character here. I like characters like the Falcon or Black Panther, or Amazing Man from All-Star Squadron... because of their personality, their backstories.
The problem is making him hot news. "Hey, look at us, we created a black Spider-Man!". Shouldn't this be considered a sort of reverse racism? It's a way to underline and imply that he is different.
If I were a black guy, I'd feel humiliated by this attempt to use "the black Spider-Man" as a freakshow to attract attentions.
I felt the same when they retconned Rawhide Kid as a gay character... "look at how open minded we are, we made him gay! Look how gay he is, he puts his gun between his legs on the covers!".
Are we sure every gay on Earth would feel happy to be identified with that?
Edited by Francesco Vanagolli on 03 August 2011 at 3:17pm
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133776
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| Posted: 03 August 2011 at 3:32pm | IP Logged | 3
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"In reality, a great deal of superheroes... can theoretically be changed to a different race and have their story remain the same. ... The exceptions? Characters who were created with a very specific background such as Black Panther, Storm, the current Black Condor or Sunfire. They were created in such a way that they use their racial identity to help inform their characters. If you change that, they aren’t the same people anymore.But characters like Superman..., Green Arrow, Ms. Marvel, Iron Man, Batman, even those like Lex Luthor, don’t have a real connection to any particular race." ++ No real connection, indeed, except for the fact that they were INTENTIONALLY CREATED that way! •• It's a kind of inverse racism. This is basically a bunch of middle class White guys, who have NO connection to the Black experience in this country, treating their own race as if it is merely a default setting. Why not a Black Superman? As a brand new, never seen before character? Sure! Why not indeed.* But as a character with seventy years of history as a White (albeit alien) guy? Tokenism. ---- * Other than the fact, that is, that history unfortunately shows Black characters cannot carry their own titles for very long. Sad but true.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133776
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| Posted: 03 August 2011 at 3:33pm | IP Logged | 4
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I felt the same when they retconned Rawhide Kid as a gay character... "look at how open minded we are, we made him gay! Look how gay he is, he puts his gun between his legs on the covers!".•• Gay character, written as a JOKE by a straight guy. What a stellar moment for Marvel!
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Kip Lewis
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 March 2011
Posts: 2880
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| Posted: 03 August 2011 at 3:52pm | IP Logged | 5
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Corey M: Where did you read that? I've been African American for 40 years, and I've never heard such a thing.
==============It may take me some time to find it; it's been years since I read it.
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Kip Lewis
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 March 2011
Posts: 2880
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| Posted: 03 August 2011 at 4:01pm | IP Logged | 6
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"In reality, a great deal of superheroes... can theoretically be changed to a different race and have their story remain the same. ... The exceptions? Characters who were created with a very specific background such as Black Panther, Storm, the current Black Condor or Sunfire. They were created in such a way that they use their racial identity to help inform their characters. If you change that, they aren’t the same people anymore.
But characters like Superman..., Green Arrow, Ms. Marvel, Iron Man, Batman, even those like Lex Luthor, don’t have a real connection to any particular race."++ No real connection, indeed, except for the fact that they were INTENTIONALLY CREATED that way! ============= The response I hear to that is they weren't "intentionally created" that way; they were created that way because it was a "default setting". No one sat around thinking whether or not Superman should have been white or black in the 1930s. They may have choosen hair color, his civilian job, name, costume, but I'd be surprised if they were thinking, "should we make him White?"
But I don't think that applies here; they're not turning Peter Parker Black, they're turning a new Spider-man Black. White Peter Parker Spider-man still existed; this is the guy who comes after him. This is no different than Tim Drake replacing Jason as Robin after the second Robin died. Now, the argument that only Peter Parker can be Spider-man is a different discussion.
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Lars Sandmark
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 05 October 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 3144
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| Posted: 03 August 2011 at 5:15pm | IP Logged | 7
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So, they publish 'The Death of Spider-Man'
they seal it in a black bag
they replace dead hero with a black stand-in.
Death of Superman ring ANY bells at notMarvel?
Or are they hoping that we all forgot it?
Recently they've shown an intent to recycle EVERY comic gimmick and storyline that has come before.
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Greg Kirkman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 May 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 15775
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| Posted: 03 August 2011 at 5:43pm | IP Logged | 8
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Anyone remember the Indian Spider-Man? +++++++++ Turkish Spider-Man is my favorite--he spies on women in the bath, is EVIL, and tortures people with guinea pigs. Uhhh, just like the real Spider-Man does...? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6h8WntefD0
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Kip Lewis
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 March 2011
Posts: 2880
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| Posted: 03 August 2011 at 5:58pm | IP Logged | 9
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I don't get how a normal kid is just going to be decide he's the new Spider-Man, and not kill himself the first time he jumps off of a building.========================
INVISO TEXT (Click or highlight to reveal):
| He does have super-powers. Agility and Spider-sense so far. |
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Michael Todd
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 07 September 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 4115
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| Posted: 03 August 2011 at 6:39pm | IP Logged | 10
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QUOTE:
| Turkish Spider-Man is my favorite--he spies on women in the bath, is EVIL, and tortures people with guinea pigs. Uhhh, just like the real Spider-Man does...? |
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Well, remember what Martin Goodman said to Stan, "You can't call a good-guy Spider-Man, people hate spiders, they're creepy".
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Brandon Carter
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 2340
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| Posted: 03 August 2011 at 6:49pm | IP Logged | 11
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I cringed when I read an issue of MARVEL TEAM-UP in which a blinded Spider-Man (he was teaming up with Daredevil, of course!) visits an eye doctor with his "secret identity" protected by no more than a splot of webbing covering his nose and mouth! **** Your point about the issue still stands, of course, but I think the story was in this issue of PETER PARKER THE SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN instead of MARVEL TEAM-UP. 
This issue is somewhat special for me because it was the last issue of the title I obtained to complete my collection. The reason it ended up being the last one was because the back issue price was more expensive than most other issues because of the guest artist--Frank Miller!
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Kip Lewis
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 March 2011
Posts: 2880
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| Posted: 03 August 2011 at 7:11pm | IP Logged | 12
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I cringed when I read an issue of MARVEL TEAM-UP in which a blinded Spider-Man (he was teaming up with Daredevil, of course!) visits an eye doctor with his "secret identity" protected by no more than a splot of webbing covering his nose and mouth!----------------- I forgot what that looked like; was his face covered like how outlaw cowboys used to disguise their faces by covering their nose and mouth? Hmm, they use that design on a few heroes over the last couple of decades.
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Topic Closed)
