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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133279
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Posted: 27 June 2011 at 12:59pm | IP Logged | 1
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...did Ditko intend Strange to be Asian...••• Well... the character's name is Stephen Strange. That doesn't sound very Asian to me!
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Matt Hawes Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 16498
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Posted: 27 June 2011 at 1:49pm | IP Logged | 2
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But, was the full name given before the origin story? I can't recall. Edited to clarify: I was thinking that in the issues from "Strange Tales" #110 through #114 the character was referred to only as "Doctor Strange," and we didn't learn until the origin that his real name is Stephen Strange, which is the same point at which the features for the character start to appear more caucasian.
Edited by Matt Hawes on 27 June 2011 at 1:59pm
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Stephen Robinson Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 5835
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Posted: 27 June 2011 at 2:39pm | IP Logged | 3
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Incidentally, remember how people who were on crutches or in wheelchairs used to be called "cripples", until this word was deemed pejorative, and replaced with "handicapped", until that was also deemed pejorative, and replaced with "disabled", which also fell from favor, to be replaced with "differently abled"?I predict the same fate for "the N-Word" -- that term itself will become something it is not permissible to use! ******* SER: I've long argued that "nigger" lost its power once a white person said it to a black person at his own peril. Prior to that moment, when a black person would have to grind his teeth and bear being called the word or even "boy," it was a reflection of a horrible time. However, even on TV, I don't recall a period -- at least within my 37 years -- in which the word "nigger" was used casually. Johnny Carson would never say, "Hey did you see what those niggers did the other day?" during his monologue. That sort of casual racism was rare if nonexistent. I do recall "nigger" being used correctly -- if a pejorative can be used correctly -- in that it was used to underscore a character's bigotry or to "reclaim" it (Richard Pryor -- I think what people missed is that he didn't just use the word "nigger," he redefined it. Yeah, racists might use this word to describe us but it has nothing to do with us, and I'm going to tell you about those people, those so-called 'niggers'). The big change in the past 25 years is the slow erasing of the word... it no longer exists, even as a pejorative. This is an ironic twist because when the word vanished from TV during a period when it was all over the pop culture spectrum. Think about it: A prosecutor in a murder trial has to say "the N-word" when discussing the potential racism of a police officer *in a court room* right at the same time that the white middle class was exposed to the word in hip-hop lyrics more blatantly than their parents ever were. I recall an episode of the TV show "Nip/Tuck" in which they are playing the Kanye West song "Flashing Lights" in the background. There is a deliberate cut to remove the lyrics that use the word "nigger." This ain't 7th Heaven. This is "Nip/Tuck" on F/X. Astounding.
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Michael Todd Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 07 September 2009 Location: United States Posts: 4115
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Posted: 27 June 2011 at 2:56pm | IP Logged | 4
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I just went back and looked, you are quite correct Matt, the name "Stephen Strange" is not used prior to the Doctor's origin story in Strange Tales #115 (December 1963) before that he is just called "Doctor Strange" or "Strange" by the Ancient One.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133279
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Posted: 27 June 2011 at 3:43pm | IP Logged | 5
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"Strange" alone sounds Asian? I don't recall anything in those early stories that indicated it was a "superhero" name. Whether or not Stephen came later, the guy's name was "Strange".
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Tony Midyett Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 January 2010 Location: United States Posts: 2834
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Posted: 27 June 2011 at 8:20pm | IP Logged | 6
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Well... the character's name is Stephen Strange. That doesn't sound very Asian to me!
------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------
I was thinking maybe his mom was Asian.
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Jesus Garcia Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 10 April 2007 Location: Canada Posts: 2414
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Posted: 27 June 2011 at 8:49pm | IP Logged | 7
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Been reading Huckleberry Finn lately, and one can hardly turn a page without finding the n-word; several times in a single page pretty often! And I thought Hemingway over used it! I wonder if Twain really managed to reproduced the talk of the day or whether it's prevalence in the book is satire. Anyway: Isn't "Strang" a Scottish name? Dr. Stephen Strange is certainly dark-haired enough to be a Scott or an Irishman. And, frankly, I don't think he was meant from the onset to be of whatever variety of white human passes for European or North African. The eyebrows and mustache run counter to this. I think he was meant either to be an unknown human variant (lost Tibetan tribe or some such) or a humanoid alien. The word "Strange" suggests "Stranger" or alien to me, Threads like this strike as fertile ground for the creation of a new superhero series.
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Michael Todd Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 07 September 2009 Location: United States Posts: 4115
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Posted: 28 June 2011 at 8:34am | IP Logged | 8
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It'sjust that early on Ditko drew him with slanted eyes and Chinese looking features much like the Ancient One, this changed from Strange Tales #115 on.
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Mark McKay Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 2258
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Posted: 28 June 2011 at 9:03am | IP Logged | 9
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I just as easily see him as being eastern european, or turkish, or lebanese in those early images, as well as the later ones.
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Brian Joseph Mayer Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 10 December 2009 Location: United States Posts: 1135
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Posted: 28 June 2011 at 9:04am | IP Logged | 10
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"Been reading Huckleberry Finn lately, and one can hardly turn a page without finding the n-word; several times in a single page pretty often! And I thought Hemingway over used it!" Recently I went into Barnes and Noble and regularly shop their kids section for my boys. I was pleased that they had Huck Finn highlighted to buy and in flipping through it is was not edited. I admit to wondering before that.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133279
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Posted: 29 June 2011 at 8:05am | IP Logged | 11
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I just as easily see him as being eastern european, or turkish, or lebanese in those early images, as well as the later ones.•• Basically, he was simply "exotic". Unfortunately, like so many Marvel characters, he became more and more "conventional" as Marvel became more and more popular.
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Michael Penn Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 April 2006 Location: United States Posts: 12703
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Posted: 29 June 2011 at 8:15am | IP Logged | 12
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The mysterious Orient (or, really, any non-English speaking place) used to be such a convenient convention before airplane travel and other technological developments "shrunk" the world.
Carter Hall didn't need any more exotic, let alone extraterrestrial, origin than Egypt!
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