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Darren De Vouge Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 December 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 3586
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Posted: 24 June 2011 at 1:07am | IP Logged | 1
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Chalk it up to either artistic license or the personal grooming habits of one who spent years in Tibet.
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Lars Johansson Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 June 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 6113
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Posted: 24 June 2011 at 3:09am | IP Logged | 2
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Russian peoples are somewhat Mongoloid or Asian all of them. But Hungarians are so much "Mongoloid" that they do not look Caucasian to us really, Chinese people were there or something, they went further than that I guess, I'm sure they were almost at the French border, not that I know history nor do I care about old shit. If Ditko's family is from Hungary, he thinks people should look like that pehaps. The Hungarians speak what is almost exactly Finnish. You in America are people from all over the world, you are white, black and purple, magenta and nobody ask "why is your friend purple".
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Michael Todd Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 07 September 2009 Location: United States Posts: 4115
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Posted: 24 June 2011 at 3:12am | IP Logged | 3
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Oriental: A person from the Orient, or with ancestry from the Orient.
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Carmen Bernardo Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 08 August 2006 Location: United States Posts: 3666
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Posted: 24 June 2011 at 5:06am | IP Logged | 4
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@ Lars: The Hungarians are actually from the Steppes of Central Asia, and they first appeared in history as the Magyars, a nomadic people akin to the Turks and Mongols whose raids into Europe actually went into France, Germany and Italy during a period from the late 9th into the 10th Centuries CE. They were subdued by the Germans under the Ottonian Dynasty in the mid-10th C, and converted to Christianity. I had noticed the Asian appearance of Dr Strange in Ditko's initial issues of the comics and wondered. Could it have been his way of showing how the Doctor actually accepted the native philosophies of his mentor?
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Michael Penn Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 April 2006 Location: United States Posts: 12694
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Posted: 24 June 2011 at 5:53am | IP Logged | 5
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From JAPAN: IT'S HISTORY AND CULTURE (2005), by William Scott Morton and J. Kenneth Olenik:
"Japanese in its syllabary (consonant followed by vowel) and in certain roots shows some similarities to Hungarian-Magyar and to Finnish. All three probably stem from a common central Asian source."
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Brian Joseph Mayer Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 10 December 2009 Location: United States Posts: 1135
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Posted: 24 June 2011 at 7:07am | IP Logged | 6
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"Oriental: A person from the Orient, or with ancestry from the Orient. " I think you forgot the part "seen as offensive by those from Asia who term Oriental as relating to objects such as rugs or vases."
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Lars Johansson Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 June 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 6113
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Posted: 24 June 2011 at 7:37am | IP Logged | 7
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Thanks Carmen and Michael. I didn't know history could be so fun. I used to collect stamps as a kid and tried to order them and I had a lot of weird stamps that said "Magyar Posta" and for many years I didn't know what it was so I had a special magyar posta section. The Finlanders they usually say that they come from Asia, but they don't look like it. They don't have the same body system, for example we drink dairy products and I don't think they can do that, they Finns I know can't drink milk or even eat ice cream. There is an old story I heard from a drunk guy, that they came from Asia (The Magyars then) and then somewhere during the long walk there was a sign that said turn left and the magyars that could read did so and settled down and it became Hungary and the idiots went on ahead and it became Finland.
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Matt Hawes Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 16497
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Posted: 24 June 2011 at 8:48am | IP Logged | 8
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I think, looking at those old stories, that Steve Ditko may have meant for Doctor Strange to be Asian/Oriental/Mongoliod (or whatever you guys finally agree on), but Stan Lee wrote him as a caucasian. Ditko clearly drew Strange with different features in the first few tales. By the time the origin was revealed, though, I think the race for the character had been settled, and Ditko drew him with more caucasian features. Then again... Maybe the same thing happened with him as it did to Doctor Droom (later "Doctor Druid")...
Edited by Matt Hawes on 24 June 2011 at 8:53am
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Paul Go Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 1394
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Posted: 24 June 2011 at 8:57am | IP Logged | 9
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The correct term would be Asian. Things are oriental, people are Asian. Minor pet peeve. Carry on.
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As an Oriental myself, I dislike this. I gladly call myself Oriental as do many of my oriental friends (see, even with or without capitalization).
Sadly, when I've used the term to describe myself I am often "corrected" by people without Asian heritage to speak of.
Using the term oriental is fine, says the Oriental. Carry on.
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Paulo Pereira Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 24 April 2006 Posts: 15539
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Posted: 24 June 2011 at 9:35am | IP Logged | 10
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It always bothered me to see various forms with the sections asking for racial classification. "Asian" would be followed by a parenthetical "Chinese, Japanese, Korean, etc." There was never, until recently, anything for people from South Asia or the Middle East. Nowadays I think they're classified along with "Pacific Islander" or something. Anyway, I tend to choose "decline to say" these days.
As far as Dr. Strange's features, I'm not sure I see oriental there.
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Mike Norris Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 4274
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Posted: 24 June 2011 at 9:52am | IP Logged | 11
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Caucasian and European are not synonymous. "Causasians" range from Europe to Western Asian to Northern Africa. No doubt in regions were Caucasians and Mongolians co-existed there was a mingling of language, culture and genetics. Though in looking at Hungarians I dont see a lot of "Mongoloid" physical traits. No one is going to mistake Zsa Zsa Gabor for Yoko Ono. As for the Sami:
QUOTE:
In very recent studies, some overwhelming new evidence has challenged the myth of the Finns and the Sámi as having a strictly Asian origin. Extensive genetic testing has helped put an end to the false conclusions that came from biased studies, based on everything from tooth size to skull shape. [8] With modern technology, it now appears that the Finns and the Sámi may have originated from an “old population in Europe which diverged from other European populations prior to subsequent linguistic and cultural diversification.” [9] Genetic testing has shown that the Finns and the Sámi are “phenotypically and genetically typical Europeans.” [10] The Sámi, as well of the Finns, are a very heterogeneous group of people who display a wide range of physical features. While there are some that feature darker Mongoloid-like characteristics, there are others who display very light colored pigments in their skin and hair. While this is somewhat a result of natural selection that has allowed for adaptation to an environment with very low ultraviolet radiation, light pigments, like the Y chromosomal polymorphisms, are a result of a founding effect, not sexual selection, as it was once thought of in the past. [11] |
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http://www.utexas.edu/courses/sami/dieda/hist/genetic.htm
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Wallace Sellars Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 May 2004 Location: United States Posts: 17698
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Posted: 24 June 2011 at 9:57am | IP Logged | 12
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I don't know that there's ever a concensus on these kinds of things. The Chinese, Korean and Vietnamese kids I knew growing up didn't like being called Oriental then, and find it just as (if not more) offensive as adults. None of them are bothered by the term Asian (or Chinese or Korean or Vietnamese or *gasp* American), so that's what I've used.
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