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John Byrne
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Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
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Posted: 15 June 2011 at 4:42pm | IP Logged | 1  

How much do you think Terry's inks added to your pencils during your run?

••

Terry often describes himself as a "Tracer". Aside from adding zip-a-tone shading here and there, he pretty much followed what I drew.

And slipped in the occasional Popeye!

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John Byrne
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Grumpy Old Guy

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Posted: 15 June 2011 at 4:45pm | IP Logged | 2  

"...The difference, to a large extent, was that Dave had a much more prevalent sense of humor. We tended to do stuff that was just ‘Hey, bet you can’t do this!’ He once blew up half of JFK, with 747s going this way, a little Lockheed fourjet coming this way; all of the stuff with Lilandra floating through space and telepathically bonding with Charlie; or elves in Ireland, for God’s sake! The idea was ‘This is comics,’ so it was outrageous and dramatic, but we should be able to have a laugh.

“John was more Canadian: it was a more serious approach, a much more—and I’d hate to say mature, but it was..."

••

I rather suspect what Chris means here is that Dave was less concerned with established continuity. Chris, until very near the end of my time on the title, had not read any of the previous issues, save the Thomas/Adams ones, and I spent a lot of my time (as did Roger Stern, as editor) saying "No, you can't do that! It contradicts ___________!"

Of course, Chris, being Chris, found a way to do a lot of the things Rog and I said "No" to by slipping them into books over which neither of us had any control!

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Ray Brady
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Posted: 15 June 2011 at 5:57pm | IP Logged | 3  

When I read the description of Cockrum's run as "fun," the first thing I thought of was the Imperial Guard, which leads to another interesting "what if?" scenario.

If JB had taken over the X-Men just a couple of issues earlier, I have to suspect the Imperial Guard would have ended up dramatically different.
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Raj Dhami
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Posted: 15 June 2011 at 6:19pm | IP Logged | 4  

JB's work is far superior to Dave's to my eye.

The level of detail in John's work surpasses Dave's everytime.  I found his art to look almost "unpolished" and "incomplete" in comparison.  That said, Cockrum's work was better in his first stint as artist than second and it was better when he inked himself than when inked by Frank Chiaramonte (although loved his work on Iron Fist with JB) or Sam Grainger or Joe Rubenstein.

From a fun perspective, JB's work was awesome - and if Claremont comments about John wanting to retain continuity in the series it just demonstrates a level of professionalism, an affection for the characters and respect for the previous creators - if thats maturity then so be it!  Pity there's not more of that around these days!

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Marcel Chenier
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Posted: 15 June 2011 at 6:37pm | IP Logged | 5  

Interesting interview.  My fave bits were about the early days at Marvel.
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Mark Haslett
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Posted: 15 June 2011 at 7:14pm | IP Logged | 6  

It's interesting to sense the weight of later days affecting his talk of the past. He talks of his work with
Dave trying to figure out who Wolverine is, but I've certainly heard that they had little interest in the
character at the time they first had to work on him.

There's no denying that deciding to make Wolverine's claws a part of the man instead of the costume was a
key decision-- and having Wolverine be very private about his past. But apart from that there's little of
what we think of as core to Wolverine added between GSX#1 and UXM#108 when JB came along. And Dave
tried a lot of quirky things that kind of dropped away once he left.

With the giant success of this character, it would be nice to have people acknowledge the importance of
JB's contributions to his development.

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Brad Hague
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Posted: 15 June 2011 at 7:31pm | IP Logged | 7  

With regard to the death and resurrection of Phoenix, Chris says: "“The resolution of the Phoenix Saga was one of the most frustrating experiences that I think any of us ever had, but I also think it was the right move. The decision, three years later, to undo the Phoenix Saga with the resurrection of Jean was less so, but that’s in my opinion."

It seems to me, based on the fact that Chris, back in the early 80's BEFORE Jean was brought back in Fantastic Four #286, desperately pined for the return of Phoenix as he referenced her as much as he could.

Now, after 25 years of retrospect, he thinks it was the wrong move.

Question for John Byrne - Do you also now agree?  Should Jean and Phoenix have been left alone (as the same entity) and left dead as set out in Uncanny X-Men #137?

Also - Was Shooter a big force to try to restore and return Jean Grey?  Was that story forced on you?

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John Byrne
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Posted: 15 June 2011 at 7:55pm | IP Logged | 8  

If Chris had left it alone, if the X-Men (and the readers) had been allowed to move on, then leaving Phoenix/Jean dead would have been fine, and the Death of Phoenix would probably still be remembered as the groundbreaking story it seemed to be at the time. But, unfortunately, even while I was still on the book, Chris seized every opportunity to reference Phoenix. Heck, he even made Dark Phoenix one of the bad guys in the X-Titans book, something I found truly ridiculous at the time.

Bottom line, the joke around the office soon became that Phoenix was the least dead dead character Marvel had. So, when Kurt Busiek suggested that it might not have been the real Jean who emerged from the shuttle crash in Jamaica Bay, I embraced the idea immediately.

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Raj Dhami
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Posted: 15 June 2011 at 8:19pm | IP Logged | 9  

The death of Phoenix is a masterful piece of work and remains as part of one of the best runs in comic history.  Bringing back Jean Grey was for me a bit of a cop out....but no where near as cheap as the constant flashbacks, the generic use of Phoenix (is it Uncanny X-men 157 with Kitty as Dark Phoenix...for heaven's sake?) and then Madelyine Pryor - who looked exactly like Jean blah blah blah blah blah!  I liked Paul Smith's art - especially when inked by Austin in Marvel Fanfare #4 - so tolerated the script in the regular series. 

Phoenix /Jean Grey should have remained dead, Terry Austin should have signed up for FF inking duties and John and Terry should have had their chance at doing X-men.  Claremont had his chance and quite frankly it became dull very, very quickly!

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Dave Kopperman
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Posted: 15 June 2011 at 9:05pm | IP Logged | 10  

 JB wrote:
Heck, he even made Dark Phoenix one of the bad guys in the X-Titans book, something I found truly ridiculous at the time.

Yah, but that means we wouldn't have gotten a chance to see Walt Simonson draw Phoenix, which was worth it.
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Jason Larouse
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Posted: 15 June 2011 at 9:53pm | IP Logged | 11  

Interesting interview. I love hearing stories about 60s Marvel. Seemed like a heck of a time and place.

One thing about Claremont is that he pretty much got to experience Marvel at every decade, so I look forward to what he's going to say about the way things were in the 80s. 90s, and present day


Edited by Jason Larouse on 15 June 2011 at 9:53pm
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Matt Hawes
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Posted: 16 June 2011 at 9:44am | IP Logged | 12  

 John Byrne wrote:
...If Chris had left it alone, if the X-Men (and the readers) had been allowed to move on, then leaving Phoenix/Jean dead would have been fine, and the Death of Phoenix would probably still be remembered as the groundbreaking story it seemed to be at the time..


It really is funny to think of how much Claremont did to try and keep Phoenix around in the years following her death in "Uncanny X-Men" #137. Here are examples of how he kept bringing her up directly and indirectly, all before Jean Grey's return officially in the "Fantastic Four":



The above is probably the earliest example, not long after JB left the title, when Storm goes rogue for a bit ("Dare We Do It Again?").



"Kitty's Fairytale" which Kitty Pryde tells as a bedtime story to Illyana Rasputin (Colossus's younger sister, before she was aged to be Kitty's peer). This story includes a Dark Phoenix character, seen above.



"Marvel and DC Present The Uncanny X-Men and The New Teen Titans." As JB notes in this thread, Claremont brings back the Phoenix as a villain in this company cross-over from 1982.



It's not really Jean Grey, or even the real Phoenix, but Claremont can't resist toying with the readers about her return.



Another allusion to the Dark Phoenix Saga, this time it's Professor Charles Xavier that goes dark.



SURPRIZE!!! She's back!... Well... No, not really...



SURPRIZE!!! She's back!!!... Er, nope... It's the same chick from the other cover, Maddie Pryor, who just really looks like Jean Grey and seemingly has Phoenix powers. But who is that young red-headed teen girl clinging to Colossus in the background?...



SURPRIZE!!! She's... Rachel Summers, who becomes Phoenix II, after her mom, who may or may not be Jean, or Maddie, or Phoenix, or whatever...! In this issue Rachel officially adopts the Phoenix title. This occurs about a year or so before Jean Grey returns.

 Chris Claremont (From the interview) wrote:
...The resolution of the Phoenix Saga was one of the most frustrating experiences that I think any of us ever had, but I also think it was the right move. The decision, three* years later, to undo the Phoenix Saga with the resurrection of Jean was less so, but that’s in my opinion....


Um...



Edited to add a footnote:

* Jean Grey returned officially nearly six years later, not three, as Claremont recalls in the interview.


Edited by Matt Hawes on 16 June 2011 at 9:46am
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