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ron bailey
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 October 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 1193
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| Posted: 22 March 2025 at 3:29pm | IP Logged | 1
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... The damage to the character of Scott was immesurable.......... I remember just assuming at the time that some sort of mind control was taking place, like Mastermind had returned or someone had taken his place, or a shape shifter was acting as Jean/Madelyne to mess with the team dynamics or something. All horrible hackneyed ideas, but nowhere near as convoluted as what actually played out.
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Vinny Valenti
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 April 2004
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| Posted: 22 March 2025 at 5:26pm | IP Logged | 2
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"I never knew anything about Jean when I started reading X-MEN with 172. My introduction to all that was thru Smith’s pencil."
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My first comic was one issue before you! It was the Walt Simonson guest issue when Rogue joined. But Walt used Smith's model for Madelyne so it was basically the same thing.
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Jean Voulis
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Joined: 05 February 2025
Location: Canada
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| Posted: 22 March 2025 at 9:13pm | IP Logged | 3
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Ron - wasn't the retcon of the retcon that Mr. Sinister was indeed influencing Scott via Maddy the clone/Goblin Queen...good lord what am I typing ? :)
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Athanasios Kollias
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 September 2021
Location: Greece
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| Posted: 23 March 2025 at 10:14am | IP Logged | 4
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I know this wasn’t the intent, but in comic time, that generally amounts to a few days!++ In caption it's stated they had more time together, like flying together for a few weeks plus all the time between issues that has been from hours to weeks. It's certainly not days, but it's not like they were together for, say, 6 months.
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Athanasios Kollias
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 September 2021
Location: Greece
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| Posted: 23 March 2025 at 10:20am | IP Logged | 5
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Ron - wasn't the retcon of the retcon that Mr. Sinister was indeed influencing Scott via Maddy the clone/Goblin Queen...good lord what am I typing ? :)++ Not Ron, but here's my take: It was indeed a retcon, but I think mainly in the use of Sinister or tehe endgame with Maddie/Goblin Queen. There were so many references that there is a link between Jean and Maddie, beyond the resemblence, that were never attributed to Mastermind. In fact, Mastemind said he thought it was quite a coincidence that she looked like Jean. If THIS isn't meant to be a subplot to be exploited, I don't know what is!!
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 23 March 2025 at 11:46am | IP Logged | 6
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Scott’s eyes visible thru his glasses……?
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Jean Voulis
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| Posted: 23 March 2025 at 3:27pm | IP Logged | 7
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I think those sub--plots were Claremont's stubborn way of making Maddie into Jean and having his original plan of her losing her powers and marrying Scott.
when JB said that Claremont would never let go of an idea it all made sense.
You can see an alternate take on this in the "What if Phoenix had lived" issue by Claremont where we see the alternate history of a depowered Jean in the same stories culminating in a fight with Mastermind where she shoots him (and he is revealed as a pawn of the Shadow King - which I think was also hinted at in the Paul Smith issues and then dropped).
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Mark Haslett
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Joined: 19 April 2004
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| Posted: 23 March 2025 at 5:10pm | IP Logged | 8
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It’s fascinating to look at the X-men under the operating hypothesis that JB
was holding Chris back from the heights of success.
I think in many ways it’s true. Some kind of confluence of factors came
together for Claremont’s X-men and it hasn’t particularly aged well or been
sustainable, but always wanting the characters to “grow” drew a record
number of readers (and speculators) into an addictive relationship with that
series. Briefly.
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Jean Voulis
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| Posted: 23 March 2025 at 5:15pm | IP Logged | 9
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I think Claremont lost the plot so to speak but you cannot say it was a 'brief' success - you have to give Claremont his due and that he helped make Uncanny X-Men the number 1 book for over a decade.
JB says it was the Paul Smith era where sales went to #1 and stayed there until Claremont left (and past that of course but we're talking about him specifically).
Including top ten spinoffs and the best selling issue of all time with Jim Lee. And perennial trade paperbacks and reprints.
All helped by a solid foundation in the Cockrun and JB years IMO.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
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| Posted: 23 March 2025 at 5:20pm | IP Logged | 10
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Speculators is the key. They began to seriously seize control after I left.
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ron bailey
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 October 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 1193
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| Posted: 23 March 2025 at 7:15pm | IP Logged | 11
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Scott’s eyes visible thru his glasses……?Scott’s eyes visible thru his glasses……?....... Never thought about it before. Is ruby quartz not translucent?
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Matt Hawes
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| Posted: 23 March 2025 at 7:35pm | IP Logged | 12
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I think it's more that Scott's eyes would still be emitting the optic blast, Ron. The blasts are held in check by the ruby quartz, but Scott's eyes are still putting them out.
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