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William T. Byrd
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 August 2009
Posts: 209
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| Posted: 01 July 2011 at 8:51pm | IP Logged | 1
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X-MEN didn't have the sales, but it WAS the book people were talking about.
Not just speaking about the Dark Phoenix Saga or Days of Future Past, but the whole collaboration between yourself, Claremont, and Austin, on Uncanny X-Men... Did fans, critics, and peers realize just how special these issues are/were at the time or is it something that was only identifiable in retrospect?
Edited by William T. Byrd on 01 July 2011 at 8:52pm
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Mark Haslett
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 6547
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| Posted: 01 July 2011 at 9:12pm | IP Logged | 2
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Paul: This meant that he had to go back and redo pages (for free, mind you) that had already been approved. (emphasis
added)***
There's a point that is just not getting the proper attention. JB did the changes for free. On time. When he was just getting a
tiny page rate. These are indisputed facts. JB was forced to eat the difference with no compensation-- at a time when
compensation was barely adequate to begin with. Shooter's point of view had no personal-stakes. He was not risking bread on his table when this went down. So who's more likely to remember things as they really happened? Shooter would have you believe the guys who actually suffered in this case have become blurry on the details over the years.
But him? Shooter, the champion of creators' rights, has remained razor sharp and ready to correct all others. It doesn't quite add up.
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Arc Carlton
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 13 April 2009
Location: Peru
Posts: 3493
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| Posted: 01 July 2011 at 10:37pm | IP Logged | 3
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I've never read the Shooter blog.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 02 July 2011 at 3:55am | IP Logged | 4
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This meant that he had to go back and redo pages (for free, mind you) that had already been approved. •• I'd actually forgotten this, until Paul jogged my memory. Yes, indeed! Jim Shooter, the Great Defender of Artists, Widows and Orphans, insisted that the changes be made to X-MEN 137 and 138 WITHOUT PAYMENT to Chris and me, because this was our "mistake" that was being "fixed". Terry lucked out on that one. The pages had not been inked when the changes were ordered, so he got paid for doing his usual job.
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William T. Byrd
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 August 2009
Posts: 209
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| Posted: 02 July 2011 at 7:06am | IP Logged | 5
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Yes, indeed! Jim Shooter, the Great Defender of Artists, Widows and Orphans, insisted that the changes be made to X-MEN 137 and 138 WITHOUT PAYMENT to Chris and me, because this was our "mistake" that was being "fixed".
Did you and Chris finally get payment when they used those pages for Phoenix: The Untold Story?
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Shawn Kane
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 November 2010
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Posts: 3239
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| Posted: 02 July 2011 at 7:25am | IP Logged | 6
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I've liked Jim Shooter as a writer at various times over the years but I remember reading Secret Wars at 10 years old and thinking "How does the EIC not write these characters properly?" His Colossus, Wolverine, and Johnny Storm were written particularly bad in that limited. He had a pretty weak reason to write the series.
Edited by Shawn Kane on 02 July 2011 at 7:25am
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 02 July 2011 at 7:38am | IP Logged | 7
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Yes, indeed! Jim Shooter, the Great Defender of Artists, Widows and Orphans, insisted that the changes be made to X-MEN 137 and 138 WITHOUT PAYMENT to Chris and me, because this was our "mistake" that was being "fixed".++ Did you and Chris finally get payment when they used those pages for Phoenix: The Untold Story? •• We got royalties from the sales of the book, but not for the pages of art and script. We'd already been paid for those, back when 137 was first produced. THE UNTOLD STORY did not use the redrawn/rewritten pages, remember. Terry, of course, lucked out doubly, since he was paid to ink the pages he had not inked back in 1980 -- so he got paid the first time, AND the second!
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Jason Czeskleba
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 April 2004
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| Posted: 02 July 2011 at 11:17am | IP Logged | 8
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John Byrne wrote:
| X-MEN didn't have the sales, but it WAS the book people were talking about. |
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Although X-Men was only an average seller overall, it was a big hit in the direct sales market at the time, always among the top 2 or 3 sellers in The Comic Reader's survey of comic shop sales. So if they wanted to reach the fan audience specifically, X-Men was the book to do it with.
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Tim O Neill
Byrne Robotics Security
Joined: 16 April 2004
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Posts: 10939
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| Posted: 02 July 2011 at 8:16pm | IP Logged | 9
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Cory V: "I'm backing up Paul on this, I remember John being 6+ pages into X-Men 138 when the edict came down from Shooter and how John had to repencil the last part of 137 virtually overnight, and then repencil portions of 138."
*****
Last summer, Terry Austin visited JB's place with a mound of original art pages from their collaboration together. He asked JB to sign the pages, which resulted in a pretty wild trip down Memory Lane, and Dark Phoenix was a memorable landmark!
Among the pages you could see evidence of the unusual nature of #138. One of the final inked panels featuring Jean's funeral was taped onto the final art page.
JB flipped up the funeral scene panel on the page. Under it, on the original page, were his pencils of an entirely different scene. Pencils that JB had done thirty years before. The rest of the page had been inked, but the funeral panel was added before the inks, leaving the original pencils intact.
Now that's a page heavy with history!
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Brian Miller
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 July 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 31351
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| Posted: 02 July 2011 at 8:27pm | IP Logged | 10
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Wow.
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Joe Hollon
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Joined: 08 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 13708
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| Posted: 02 July 2011 at 8:27pm | IP Logged | 11
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Tim, that's the story of the year!
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Matt Hawes
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Joined: 16 April 2004
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| Posted: 02 July 2011 at 8:29pm | IP Logged | 12
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It would be great to see those pencils.
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