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Topic: Jim Shooter: The Origin of the Dark Phoenix Saga Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Gene Best
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Posted: 29 June 2011 at 5:25pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

"The work that John Byrne did under Jim Shooter at Marvel was the best of his career.

I cannot believe a comment like this could be made by someone that has kept up with JB's career, output and work from his X-Men days till now."

Agreed.  I can understand someone saying they like someone's work from a certain period more - I love my 80's Marvel for all sorts of reasons, not the least of which is nostalgia - but that quote just screams ignorance. 

I'd be curious how someone could look at Next Men, Babe, etc., and support that argument.  Not to brown nose our host, but reading those books over the years, I see an artist continuing to explore and discover the extent of his talent.
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Mark Haslett
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Posted: 29 June 2011 at 7:47pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

Another thing with folks who find they have lots of "useful advice"for their
underlings is that, in their own minds, they are simply helping, sharing
wisdom and (as Shooter sees it) guiding others. There's no way to expect
Shooter's blog to contain accurate mea culpas-- it just isn't part of the
personality.
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Paul Simpson Simpson
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Posted: 29 June 2011 at 8:55pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

The Marvel bullpen applauding John Byrne?? I think not.
*************

 Why would they not applaud JB. By earning the company all that money JB benifited all Marvel employees. His work helped pay their salaries. No profits coming in means no paychecks going out.

**************

 cumulatively I'm in a "bracket" of about 30%.

************** 

That's about 10 or 15% too much. Having 300 out of every 1000 dollars you earn taken away is far from fair. How dare you make a good living through your hard work.

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John Byrne
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Posted: 30 June 2011 at 2:53am | IP Logged | 4 post reply

The Marvel bullpen applauding John Byrne?? I think not.

*************

Why would they not applaud JB. By earning the company all that money JB benifited all Marvel employees. His work helped pay their salaries. No profits coming in means no paychecks going out.

••

This was nothing to do with money.

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Rick Whiting
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Posted: 30 June 2011 at 8:03am | IP Logged | 5 post reply

It's pretty bad that Marvel's excuse for firing him was that the company's owners felt he failed to properly capitalize on the success of the first "X-Men" film.

Has any comic book series really seen that much of a boost in NEW comics sales (not back issue sales) due to a film since the first "Batman" in 1989? I can tell you, as a retailer, that as far as my shop is concerned, there's not much of a boost, if any, in sales of the new comics due to a movie coming out. You do get speculators going after the old stuff thinking each time that each new movie will propel the prices of the back issues into the stratosphere, despite the fact that never really occurs.

_____________________________

Matt, I agree with you in regards to Marvel's BS excuse for why they fired Harras. His, IMO from someone looking from the outside, was unfair and unjust. It also led to the myth that Marvel (the publishing division) was doing financially and creatively terrible under Harras, which was not true.

You are also 100% right about comic book series not seeing an increase in new sales due to movies based off of said comic book series. Many retailers, as you know, will sometimes increase their pre order sales for an issue of a comic around the time of a movies release, but that is mainly due to Marvel relaunching a series over again with a brand new #1 with a rare variant cover which artificially boosts sales on said book and gives the short term illusion that sales have increased due to the movies. What many people don't realize is that an increase in pre order sales to retailers does not not necessarily mean an increase in actual in store sales to actual walk in paying customers.

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Adam Hutchinson
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Posted: 30 June 2011 at 8:37am | IP Logged | 6 post reply

Going back to the two sides (at least) to every story: Mark Waid wasn't sorry to see Bob Harras fired as EiC.
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Tim O Neill
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Posted: 30 June 2011 at 8:51am | IP Logged | 7 post reply



Shooter sure does talk a lot about stories he didn't write. 




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John Byrne
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Posted: 30 June 2011 at 9:00am | IP Logged | 8 post reply

Shooter sure does talk a lot about stories he didn't write.

••

Sometimes I wonder if he really believes there IS such an animal. When I read his description of how the final chapter of Dark Phoenix came to be, I have to assume he genuinely believes that was what happened. I can't imagine why, with a story that has been so minutely dissected in the fan press in the decades since its publication, he would present something so much at odds with reality if he did not think people would accept his version as gospel.

Fortunately, this is an instance where the truth came out long ago -- mostly because no one was trying to hide it!! -- and Shooter's Orwellian approach thus carries no weight with anyone who bothers to look beyond his version.

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Flavio Sapha
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Posted: 30 June 2011 at 9:12am | IP Logged | 9 post reply

Star Brand gives an interesting insight into Shooter´s (self-delusional) psychology.
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Rick Whiting
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Posted: 30 June 2011 at 11:21am | IP Logged | 10 post reply

Is it safe to say that Shooter's "people skills" as EIC were lacking and was one of the main problems that a number of people had with him?
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John Byrne
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Posted: 30 June 2011 at 11:34am | IP Logged | 11 post reply

I would suggest something of an answer to that question can be found by looking at the people who departed Marvel during his tenure, and returned after he got the boot.
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Andy Mokler
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Posted: 30 June 2011 at 12:01pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

"Mark Waid wasn't sorry to see Bob Harras fired as EIC"

Thanks for the link.  The interview is quite a bit longer than this paragraph but talk about not pulling any punches.  If nothing else, Kudo's to Waid for expressing how he really feels.


 QUOTE:

Word has it that you're no longer welcome at Marvel after a statement you made on my Forum about Bob Harras. What's your take on Bob's time at Marvel in your experience?

Yeah, that's at least temporarily true. Apparently, the fact that Bob was fired for unfair and wrong reasons one September rather than for all the tens of hundreds of RIGHT reasons he'd racked up in the seven years PREVIOUS gave a lot of staffers a sudden change of heart. Amazing. Overnight, they forgot what a two-faced, cowardly liar Bob had been and what crap they'd all had to suffer through because of his shortcomings as a manager. Instead, everyone was lighting candles for Bob. Jesus. You want to know the truth? In my humble =koff= opinion, Bob did as much to help destroy the comic book industry during the 1990s than any other single human being alive. Yes, even more than Gareb. I'd even let Ron Perlman out of Hell before I'd pardon Bob. For years and years and years, the editorial philosophy at Marvel was to make each and every comic book as labyrinthine and confusing as creatively possible. Marvel had the single highest-profile comic book in the Western hemisphere--X-MEN--and Bob did everything imaginable to make it completely incomprehensible and inaccessible to new and/or casual readers. Everything.


I would certainly recommend reading the article to anyone who hasn't.  I know nothing of Waid's politics but he seems to be saying what many on this board often feel and express. 

It's pretty disappointing that the guy who wrote Kingdom Come, which I thought portrayed Superman in a very good way, is banned from ever writing Superman.

From an outside point of view, it sure seems like the whole industry is run by jealous, spiteful individuals whose only purpose in life is to make the wrong decisions and do everything they can to screw someone over if they get the opportunity.



Edited by Andy Mokler on 30 June 2011 at 12:02pm
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